14. The omission of Mayor Giuliani's statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse (30-31).
Regarding advanced knowledge of the collapse of WTC2, the 9/11 Commission Report states:
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To our knowledge none of the chiefs present believed that a total collapse of either tower was possible. One senior chief did articulate his concern that upper floors could begin to collapse in a few hours, and that firefighters thus should not ascend above floors in the 60s. (p.302)
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At about 9:57, an EMS paramedic approached the FDNY Chief of Department and advised that an engineer in front of 7 WTC has just remarked that the Twin Towers in fact were in imminent danger of a total collapse. (p.302)
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At 9:51, an aviation unit warned units of large pieces of debris hanging from the building. Prior to 9:59, no NYPD helicopter pilot predicted that either tower would collapse. (p.304)
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The claim inherent in the allegation is that Mayor Giuliani made a statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse.
As with many of Dr Griffin’s claims, there’s also an implied claim in this allegation.
The implied claim is that there is something sinister regarding this statement. This is supported by Dr Griffin’s reference to this statement in his book Omissions and Distortions.
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This is a remarkable statement. There was no publicly available reason to believe that the Twin Towers were going to collapse. After all, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never before collapsed because of fire, and the fires in the Twin Towers were even raging, all-consuming fires.
Griffin, D.R.; The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions, p.30-31
As previously discussed, Dr Griffin’s representation of the WTC fires is entirely dishonest and untrue, and this goes a significant way towards refuting his claim. In the fire at One Meridian Plaza we saw that firefighters evacuated the building out of fear that it would collapse.
The first question is, what did Mayor Giuliani actually say? Here’s the recording that is being discussed:
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I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit and got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us.
-Mayor Rudolph Giuliani
A number of things are immediately apparent from this statement. Firstly, he doesn’t say they were told either building was going to suffer a total collapse. Some firefighters reported that they felt a partial collapse of the upper floors was likely in a few hours.
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As the conditions deteriorated, the FDNY commanders had to judge whether the buildings were in danger of collapse. Building collapse, like other dangers to response personnel, is a constant concern in firefighting.
Specific chiefs are tasked with responsibility for tracking these safety issues. The best estimate of one senior chief, provided to the chief of the department sometime between 9:25 and 9:45, was that there might be a danger of collapse in a few hours, and therefore units probably should not ascend above floors in the sixties.
The second thing of note is he doesn’t indicate how many minutes or seconds before collapse he was notified. What he does say is: and it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building. How much warning were they given? Minutes? Seconds? The Mayor had others with him at that moment, and some of their accounts may hold the answer:
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In addition to the Mayor and the Police Commissioner, several Deputy Mayors and Senior City Hall staff were at the command post. The Mayor was on the phone with the White House, and had been told the White House was being evacuated. Suddenly, the building began to shake, and someone yelled the towers were coming down. We could hear the roar of the building collapsing, and then there was silence and darkness.
Jonathan Alter of Newsweek Magazine provides a similar account (he himself was not present at the time):
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From there Giuliani, needing phone lines, commandeered a Merrill Lynch back office at 75 Barclay Street. After 45 minutes someone yelled, "Get down! It’s coming down!"
Joseph J. Lhota, the deputy mayor for operations, was also present:
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As Fire Department officials headed toward the Trade Center, Lhota and the others went to 75 Barclay Street, formerly a Merrill Lynch office, searching for working phone lines — “communications meant everything at that point, and cell phones were useless, overloaded with calls,” Lhota says. “We got through to the governor’s office and peppered them with questions: Is this terrorism? Are more planes on the way? Are the airports closed? Should we close the tunnels? The mayor also wanted to talk to the White House. As I handed him the phone, saying, ‘Vice President Cheney is about to get on the line,’ a police official ran in yelling, ‘Get down! Everybody get down! It’s coming down!’ ”
Emmons, G.; Back in Business, Harvard Business School Bulletin, April 2002
These accounts suggest that the advanced notice the mayor received wasn’t advanced at all, but was a direct response to the beginning of the collapse. This indeed, would not be enough time to get out of the building.
Finally, Giuliani clarifies the matter in response to a direct question (from timecode 00:01:00:00):
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Well the fact is that, ah, I didn’t realise the towers would collapse, I never realised that, what I… [interruption] …if I can complete the sentence, if you’d give me the courtesy to complete the sentence. Our understanding was that over a long period of time, the way other buildings collapse, the towers could collapse. Meaning over a seven, eight, nine, ten hour period. No one that I knew of had any idea that they would implode. That was a complete surprise. Thank you.
-Rudolph Giuliani
Certainly these accounts bring into question the assertion that Mayor Giuliani even received prior warning. But even if he did, is Dr Griffin’s secondary claim, that there was no publicly available reason to believe that the Twin Towers were going to collapse, valid?
There’s certainly some indicators that perhaps the collapse of the towers wasn’t entirely unexpected by everyone.
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By 9:30 a.m., after both planes had struck, a rumor was circulating that a third hijacked plane was headed to New York. Assistant Chief Joseph Callan recalled feeling the north tower move. "I made the decision that the building was no longer safe," the chief told the Fire Department's oral history interviewers.
"All units in Building 1," he announced over the radio at 9:32. "All units in Building 1, come out, down to the lobby. Everybody down to the lobby."
Dwyer, J., Flynn, K. and Fessenden, F.; Fatal Confusion, New York Times, July 7 2002
Chief Callan provided more detail of his reason for this evacuation call in his FDNY testimony:
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Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower.
There’s also more information about the engineer who notified an EMS outside WTC7 that the towers would collapse, as recounted in the Commission Report.
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I was in a discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a representative from the Department of Buildings, but I’m not sure. Some engineer type person, and several of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was brought to my attention, it was believed that the structural damage that was suffered to the towers was quite significant and they were very confident that the building’s stability was compromised and they felt that the north tower was in danger of a near imminent collapse.
I grabbed EMT Zarrillo, I advised him of that information. I told him he was to proceed immediately to the command post where Chief Ganci was located. Told him where it was across the street from number 1 World Trade Center. I told him ‘You see Chief Ganci and Chief Ganci only. Provide him with the information that the building integrity is severely compromised and they believe the building is in danger of imminent collapse.’ So, he left off in that direction.
John came to me and said you need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following message: that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse. I said okay. I went down Vesey Street towards West.
Q. You were by yourself?
A. I was by myself, me and my helmet and my radio. I got to the corner of Vesey and West. I found some EMS vehicles. I think I saw Chief Gombo there. I'm not really sure. I mentioned to the EMS people there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you need to get away from here, the building might collapse, we need to leave this spot.
As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out. He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the [expletive removed] told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down.
There’s also anecdotal evidence that others foresaw a building collapse:
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My Thayer School engineering training came back, and I realized that with that intensity of heat in a building in which the steel girders were insulated with asbestos, it had to collapse within one hour. I called the fire department, police, etc. and told them the building was guaranteed to collapse. I was told that 911 was only for emergencies, and I should call somewhere else.
The claim, that Mayor Giuliani made a statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse, is conditionally rejected. It appears he was notified of the collapse as it happened.
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The implied claim, that there was no publicly available reason to believe that the Twin Towers were going to collapse, is rejected.
