<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss' xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869</id><updated>2011-04-21T12:02:27.597-07:00</updated><title type='text'>David Ray Griffin's 115 lies</title><subtitle type='html'>In the next months we will be looking at David Ray Griffin's 115 lies. The work is done by Gumboot from the JREF forum.</subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default?max-results=100'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>12</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>100</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-5217403160186191107</id><published>2007-06-18T11:57:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-18T11:57:49.823-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Fifteenth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 15. The omission of the fact that President Bush's brother Marvin and his cousin Wirt Walker III were both principals in the company in charge of security for the WTC (31-32). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Neither the name “Marvin Bush” nor “Wirt Walker” appears in the Commission Report. The report does not discuss the security system at the World Trade Center, or who operated it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are numerous claims inherent in this allegation. But first we have to identify the company in question. On page 31 of Dr Griffin’s book &lt;i&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omission and Distortions&lt;/i&gt; the name of the company is provided in a quote from another book:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; One of many of the ironies of the attack was that Marvin Bush, the president’s brother, owned stock in and had served as a director of a company, Stratesec, that handled security for three clients that figured prominently in the attack – United Airlines; Dulles Airport, from which American Airlines Flight 77 was hijacked; and the World Trade Center itself.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unger, C.; &lt;u&gt;House of Bush, House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World’s Two Most Powerful Dynasties&lt;/u&gt;, New York &amp; Lindon: Scribner (2004), pg.249.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Dr Griffin further clarifies in the footnotes:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The company at the time was named Securacom.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thus:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; a) The claim inherent in the allegations is that Marvin Bush is President Bush’s brother, and Wirt Walker III is President Bush’s cousin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;b) The claim inherent in the allegation is that both Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker III were principals in Securacom.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;c) The claim inherent in the allegation is that Securacom were in charge of security at the WTC.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In regards to Marvin Bush:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Marvin Pierce Bush (born October 22, 1956) is the youngest son of George H. W. Bush and Barbara Pierce, and brother of George W., John (Jeb), Neil and Dorothy. He is named for his maternal grandfather. He and wife Margaret have two adopted children: a daughter, Marshall, and a son, Walker.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Bush" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Furthermore the following photographs confirm his close relationship to the current President of the United States:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Bush_immediate_extended_family.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;Front Left (seated):&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Entire_Bush_family.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;Front Row, centre:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However any relationship to Wirt Walker III is questionable:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Walker is the great-grandnephew of his namesake Wirt D. Walker (1860-1899), a successful railroad entrepreneur and philanthropist from Chicago who became blind and helped found the Art Institute of Chicago. They are descended from James M. Walker of New Hampshire. Although frequently cited as a cousin of Marvin Bush, who is a descendant of George Herbert Walker of St. Louis, there is no connection between the families.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/wirt-walker" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;According to the &lt;a href="http://www.genealogy.com/famousfolks/georgeb/" target="_blank"&gt;Bush family tree&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The oldest descendant with the surname “Walker” is David Davis Walker (1840 – 1918):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; David Davis Walker was born in near Bloomington, Illinois 19 Jan 1840. David died 4 Oct 1918 in Kennebunkeport, Maine, at 78 years of age.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He married Martha Adela Beaky in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri, 25 Dec 1862. Martha was born in Emmitsburg, Frederick, Maryland 1 Jun 1841. Martha was the daughter of Joseph Ambrose Beaky and Mary Ann Bangs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;David Davis Walker and Martha Adela Beaky had the following children:&lt;br /&gt;- Joseph Sidney Walker was born in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri 11 Oct 1863.&lt;br /&gt;- William Hargadine Walker was born in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri 10 Sep 1864.&lt;br /&gt;- Rose Marion Walker was born in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri 10 Aug 1867.&lt;br /&gt;- David Davis Walker was born in St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri 7 Apr 1870.&lt;br /&gt;- George Herbert Walker was born 11 Jun 1875.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.genealogy.com/famousfolks/georgeb/d0/i0000049.htm#i49" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;So it would appear Wirt D Walker III is unrelated to President Bush. But what of the role of these individuals is Securacom/Stratesec?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Marvin Bush was reelected to the Stratesec board of directors annually from 1993 through 1999. His last reelection was on May 25, 1999, for July 1999 to June 2000.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While on the board, Marvin Bush served on the company's Audit Committee and Compensation Committee. He acquired 53,000 shares of stock in the company at 52 cents a share, partly through his private company, Andrews-Bush, located in northern Virginia. Shares in the 1997 initial offering sold at $8.50.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Company stock became worthless after the company's de-listing. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filings ceased showing Marvin Bush as a shareholder after 2000, but there are no filings indicating when his stock was sold.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.washingtonspectator.com/articles/20050215bushes_2.cfm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;It would appear that Marvin Bush was on the board of Securacom, although this position appears to have ceased in June 2000 – a full 14 months before the September 11 Attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The question then becomes, what was Securacom’s role at the World Trade Center? At this point it is worth identifying what Dr Griffin contends the significance of their presence is:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Of course, if the Twin Towers as well as WTC-7 had been fitted with explosives so that they could be “pulled” at the appropriate time, we would have an explanation as to how some people could have known in advance that the buildings were going to collapse. Relevant to this possibility might be the fact that President Bush’s brother, Marvin Bush, and his cousin, Wirt Walker III, were principals in the company that was in charge of security for the World Trade Center, with Walker being the CEO from 1999 until January 2002.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Griffin, D.R.; &lt;u&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/u&gt;, pg.31  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;It appears Griffin’s allegation is that Marvin Bush’s position, as a member of the Board of Securacom, allowed unknown persons to enter the World Trade Center buildings undetected and wire them with explosives. The notion itself is absurd. Fifty thousand people worked in the Twin Towers alone, and some of the offices were occupied around the clock. Assistance from the company that controlled security might indeed allow demolition crews to bypass security, but it could not conceal their work from the thousands of people who worked in the towers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bearing this in mind, did Securacom run security at the World Trade Center? The short answer is, no. Securacom’s work at the World Trade Center started as a result of a security upgrade in the aftermath of the 1993 Bombing. But they weren’t the major contractor:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; E-J Electric Installation Co., the country's oldest independent electrical contractor, won a $28 million contract in 1996 to tighten security at the World Trade Center. The Long Island City, N.Y.-based contractor installed 2 million feet of fiber-optic cable, hundreds of security cameras, access control and 110 turnstiles, including systems integration. The parking garage also became restricted after a terrorist drove a van, containing a bomb, into the underground parking garage in 1993.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric_towering_security_2/index.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Securacom also began its work in 1996:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Securacom got the $8.3 million World Trade Center security contract in October 1996 and received about $9.2 million from the WTC job from 1996 (a quarter of its revenues that year) to 1998. But in 1998, the company was "excused from the project" because it could not fulfill the work, according to former manager Al Weinstein, and the electronic security work at the WTC was taken over by EJ Electric, a larger contractor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.washingtonspectator.com/articles/20050215bushes_3.cfm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Securacom’s United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filings reflect this:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Revenues increased by 108.6% from $5.8 million in 1996 to $12.1 million in 1997. The increase was due to work completed for new clients and an increase in work completed on existing projects. Revenues from the World Trade Center project, which commenced in October 1996, increased from $1.6 million in 1996 to $6.6 million in 1997.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1037453/0000925328-98-000030.txt" target="_blank"&gt;1997 Filing&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Revenues decreased by 45% from $12.1 million in 1997 to $6.6 million in 1998. The decrease was due to the closeout of the World Trade Center Project.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1037453/0000925328-99-000032.txt" target="_blank"&gt;1998 Filing&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;All of Securacom’s SEC filings are available &lt;a href="http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&amp;CIK=0001037453&amp;amp;type=&amp;dateb=&amp;amp;owner=include&amp;start=0&amp;amp;count=40" target="_blank"&gt;online&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It appears Securacom were not “in charge” of security at the WTC at all, much less on 9/11. These records suggest they were involved in a particular aspect of upgrading the security system from 1996 until 1998.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So who was running security at the World Trade Center? That responsibility appears to have been somewhat shared between the Port Authority Police Department (PAPD) and a private company called Kroll Inc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; I am a Police Officer in the employ of the Port Authority of NY &amp; NJ. I have been such for the greater part of the last 23 years. On Sept. 11th, 2001, our Police Department suffered the greatest single day loss in Law Enforcement history at the World Trade Center. 37 Officers from every rank (Superintendent to Police Officer) as well as my partner, explosive detector K-9 Sirius were killed in the attack. Many would ask what the PAPD was doing in the World Trade Center. A little known fact was that we were always there. Since the Port Authority owned the buildings, we (the Police) were responsible for the public safety therein.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Testimony of David Lim&lt;br /&gt;Nation Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing1/witness_lim.htm" target="_blank"&gt;First Public Hearing, March 31, 2003&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kroll Inc. were responsible for security at the entire WTC site on 9/11, and they appointed former FBI counter-terrorism expert John O’Neill as head of security less than a month before the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; He hears about a job opening as head of security at the World Trade Center. It would mean a significant salary increase, but also it would mean leaving the FBI. By this point, however, O'Neill realizes his chances for a promotion were severely hurt by the briefcase incident. In addition to career problems, entertaining foreign visitors and O'Neill's lifestyle had left him in debt. The job at the World Trade Center would give him a chance to pay off that debt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/john/timeline.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; O'Neill, 49, became chief of security at the World Trade Center last month following a 25-year career with the FBI. While with the FBI, O'Neill was in charge of national security in New York, and he may have died at the hands of terrorists he had trailed in the role.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"That's the irony here, that he would perish in this way,” said Bucknam, who was an adviser to former FBI director Louis Freeh and now is managing director of the Kroll Associates security consultants. "He ate, drank and slept fighting terrorists. Apart from the human loss, it's a real loss of talent.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;John P. O'Neill : A Career Fighting Terrorism&lt;br /&gt;McGinty, J.C.; Newsday,  September 14, 2001&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://cf.newsday.com/911/victimsearch.cfm?id=314" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; O'Neill had recently retired from the FBI and had just taken over security for the World Trade Center, said New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"That Tuesday was his first or second day on the job," Kerik said Friday in an interview with CNN's Larry King Live. . "He was going to go into One World Trade, the tower one, and when the strike came he went into the second tower in an attempt to help people get out of the building and he died there. We found his body today."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/21/vic.body.terror.expert/" target="_blank"&gt;CNN&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Some of us did see the emerging pattern and shouted out in alarm. John O'Neill, for example, who was named the head of security at the World Trade Center in New York two weeks before September 11, was one. I knew and respected John; Kroll helped to place him in the job that cost him his life.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Cherkasky, M.; &lt;u&gt;Forewarned&lt;/u&gt;, Ballantine Books, 2003&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.wnyc.org/books/12387" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter One – Twenty Years of Terror&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Upon investigation, Dr Griffin’s claims appear weak at best. Many of those responsible for security in the World Trade Center site were killed in the collapse of the buildings; an unlikely outcome had they been party to the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; a) The claim that Marvin Bush is President Bush’s brother, and Wirt Walker III is President Bush’s cousin is partially rejected. While Marvin Bush is the President’s brother, Wirt Walker III appears to be unrelated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;b) The claim that both Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker III were principals in Securacom is conditionally accepted. Marvin Bush was involved in the company, however his involvement ended long before the 9/11 Attacks. Given that Wirt Walker III appears to be unrelated to President Bush, his involvement in the company is irrelevant.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;c) The claim that Securacom were in charge of security at the WTC is rejected.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-5217403160186191107?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/5217403160186191107'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/5217403160186191107'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/fifteenth-lie.html' title='Fifteenth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-4137697342814164482</id><published>2007-06-18T11:55:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-18T11:56:47.447-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Fourteenth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 14. The omission of Mayor Giuliani's statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse (30-31). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regarding advanced knowledge of the collapse of WTC2, the 9/11 Commission Report states:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; To our knowledge none of the chiefs present believed that a total collapse of either tower was possible. One senior chief did articulate his concern that upper floors could begin to collapse in a few hours, and that firefighters thus should not ascend above floors in the 60s. (p.302) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At about 9:57, an EMS paramedic approached the FDNY Chief of Department and advised that an engineer in front of 7 WTC has just remarked that the Twin Towers in fact were in imminent danger of a total collapse. (p.302) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At 9:51, an aviation unit warned units of large pieces of debris hanging from the building. Prior to 9:59, no NYPD helicopter pilot predicted that either tower would collapse. (p.304) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The claim inherent in the allegation is that Mayor Giuliani made a statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As with many of Dr Griffin’s claims, there’s also an &lt;i&gt;implied&lt;/i&gt; claim in this allegation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The implied claim is that there is something sinister regarding this statement. This is supported by Dr Griffin’s reference to this statement in his book &lt;i&gt;Omissions and Distortions&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; This is a remarkable statement. There was no publicly available reason to believe that the Twin Towers were going to collapse. After all, steel-frame high-rise buildings have never before collapsed because of fire, and the fires in the Twin Towers were even raging, all-consuming fires.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Griffin, D.R.; &lt;u&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/u&gt;, p.30-31  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;As previously discussed, Dr Griffin’s representation of the WTC fires is entirely dishonest and untrue, and this goes a significant way towards refuting his claim. In the fire at One Meridian Plaza we saw that firefighters evacuated the building out of fear that it would collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first question is, what did Mayor Giuliani actually say?  Here’s the recording that is being discussed:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0hNmf76GUCw"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0hNmf76GUCw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit and got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-Mayor Rudolph Giuliani  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;A number of things are immediately apparent from this statement. Firstly, he doesn’t say they were told either building was going to suffer a total collapse. Some firefighters reported that they felt a partial collapse of the upper floors was likely in a few hours.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; As the conditions deteriorated, the FDNY commanders had to judge whether the buildings were in danger of collapse. Building collapse, like other dangers to response personnel, is a constant concern in firefighting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Specific chiefs are tasked with responsibility for tracking these safety issues. The best estimate of one senior chief, provided to the chief of the department sometime between 9:25 and 9:45, was that there might be a danger of collapse in a few hours, and therefore units probably should not ascend above floors in the sixties.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Statement by Mr John Farmer&lt;br /&gt;National Commission On Terrorist Attacks Upon The United States&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing11/9-11Commission_Hearing_2004-05-19.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Eleventh Public Hearing, Wednesday May 19th, 2004&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The second thing of note is he doesn’t indicate how many minutes or seconds before collapse he was notified. What he does say is: &lt;i&gt;and it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building&lt;/i&gt;. How much warning were they given? Minutes? Seconds? The Mayor had others with him at that moment, and some of their accounts may hold the answer:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In addition to the Mayor and the Police Commissioner, several Deputy Mayors and Senior City Hall staff were at the command post. The Mayor was on the phone with the White House, and had been told the White House was being evacuated. Suddenly, the building began to shake, and someone yelled the towers were coming down. We could hear the roar of the building collapsing, and then there was silence and darkness.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Richard J. Sheirer&lt;br /&gt;Former Commissioner of the New York City&lt;br /&gt;Office of Emergency Management&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/9-11_commission/040518-sheirer.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Testimony to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;May 18, 2004  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan Alter of &lt;i&gt;Newsweek Magazine&lt;/i&gt; provides a similar account (he himself was not present at the time):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; From there Giuliani, needing phone lines, commandeered a Merrill Lynch back office at 75 Barclay Street. After 45 minutes someone yelled, "Get down! It’s coming down!"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alter, J.; &lt;a href="http://myhero.com/myhero/hero.asp?hero=r_giuliani" target="_blank"&gt;Lifesaver Hero: Rudolph Giuliani&lt;/a&gt;, Newsweek Magazine, September 24th, 2001  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Joseph J. Lhota, the deputy mayor for operations, was also present:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; As Fire Department officials headed toward the Trade Center, Lhota and the others went to 75 Barclay Street, formerly a Merrill Lynch office, searching for working phone lines — “communications meant everything at that point, and cell phones were useless, overloaded with calls,” Lhota says. “We got through to the governor’s office and peppered them with questions: Is this terrorism? Are more planes on the way? Are the airports closed? Should we close the tunnels? The mayor also wanted to talk to the White House. As I handed him the phone, saying, ‘Vice President Cheney is about to get on the line,’ a police official ran in yelling, ‘Get down! Everybody get down! It’s coming down!’ ”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Emmons, G.; &lt;a href="http://www.alumni.hbs.edu/bulletin/2002/april/nyc.html" target="_blank"&gt;Back in Business&lt;/a&gt;, Harvard Business School Bulletin, April 2002  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These accounts suggest that the advanced notice the mayor received wasn’t advanced at all, but was a direct response to the beginning of the collapse. This indeed, would not be enough time to get out of the building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Finally, Giuliani clarifies the matter in response to a direct question (from timecode 00:01:00:00):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4n7uJnKGTGg"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4n7uJnKGTGg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Well the fact is that, ah, I didn’t realise the towers would collapse, I never realised that, what I… [interruption] …if I can complete the sentence, if you’d give me the courtesy to complete the sentence. Our understanding was that over a long period of time, the way other buildings collapse, the towers could collapse. Meaning over a seven, eight, nine, ten hour period. No one that I knew of had any idea that they would implode. That was a complete surprise. Thank you.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-Rudolph Giuliani  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Certainly these accounts bring into question the assertion that Mayor Giuliani even received prior warning. But even if he did, is Dr Griffin’s secondary claim, that there &lt;i&gt;was no publicly available reason to believe that the Twin Towers were going to collapse&lt;/i&gt;, valid?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There’s certainly some indicators that perhaps the collapse of the towers wasn’t entirely unexpected by everyone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; By 9:30 a.m., after both planes had struck, a rumor was circulating that a third hijacked plane was headed to New York. Assistant Chief Joseph Callan recalled feeling the north tower move. "I made the decision that the building was no longer safe," the chief told the Fire Department's oral history interviewers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"All units in Building 1," he announced over the radio at 9:32. "All units in Building 1, come out, down to the lobby. Everybody down to the lobby."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dwyer, J., Flynn, K. and Fessenden, F.; &lt;a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E7DA1E31F934A35754C0A9649C8B63" target="_blank"&gt;Fatal Confusion&lt;/a&gt;, New York Times, July 7 2002  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chief Callan provided more detail of his reason for this evacuation call in his FDNY testimony:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Callan_Joseph.txt" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Interview with Assistant Chief Joseph Callan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conducted by NYC Fire Marshall Michael Starace, 2 November 2002  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There’s also more information about the engineer who notified an EMS outside WTC7 that the towers would collapse, as recounted in the Commission Report.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; I was in a discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a representative from the Department of Buildings, but I’m not sure. Some engineer type person, and several of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was brought to my attention, it was believed that the structural damage that was suffered to the towers was quite significant and they were very confident that the building’s stability was compromised and they felt that the north tower was in danger of a near imminent collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I grabbed EMT Zarrillo, I advised him of that information. I told him he was to proceed immediately to the command post where Chief Ganci was located. Told him where it was across the street from number 1 World Trade Center. I told him ‘You see Chief Ganci and Chief Ganci only. Provide him with the information that the building integrity is severely compromised and they believe the building is in danger of imminent collapse.’ So, he left off in that direction.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Peruggia_John.txt" target="_blank"&gt;Interview with EMS Division Chief John Peruggia&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conducted by Ron Castorina, 25 October, 2001  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;EMT Zarrillo continues the story:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; John came to me and said you need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following message: that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse. I said okay. I went down Vesey Street towards West.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Q.&lt;/b&gt; You were by yourself?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;A.&lt;/b&gt; I was by myself, me and my helmet and my radio. I got to the corner of Vesey and West. I found some EMS vehicles. I think I saw Chief Gombo there.&lt;br /&gt;I'm not really sure. I mentioned to the EMS people there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you need to get away from here, the building might collapse, we need to leave this spot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out. He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the [expletive removed] told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110161.PDF" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Interview with EMT Richard Zarrillo (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conducted by Ron Castorina, 25 October 2001  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There’s also anecdotal evidence that others foresaw a building collapse:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; My Thayer School engineering training came back, and I realized that with that intensity of heat in a building in which the steel girders were insulated with asbestos, it had to collapse within one hour. I called the fire department, police, etc. and told them the building was guaranteed to collapse. I was told that 911 was only for emergencies, and I should call somewhere else.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ray C. Dougherty, Professor of Linguistics, New York University&lt;br /&gt;Email to his Dartmouth College alumni mailing list, 11 September 2001&lt;br /&gt;As hosted by &lt;a href="http://www.nyu.edu/pages/linguistics/kaleidoscope/PDF-Essays/What%20a%20way%20to%20go.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;New York University (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;and &lt;a href="http://www.alum.dartmouth.org/classes/62/bombdough.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Dartmouth College Class of 1962&lt;/a&gt;.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The claim, that Mayor Giuliani made a statement that he had received word that the World Trade Center was going to collapse, is conditionally rejected. It appears he was notified of the collapse &lt;i&gt;as it happened&lt;/i&gt;.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The implied claim, that there was no publicly available reason to believe that the Twin Towers were going to collapse, is rejected. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-4137697342814164482?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/4137697342814164482'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/4137697342814164482'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/fourteenth-lie.html' title='Fourteenth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-131950479134299595</id><published>2007-06-18T11:53:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-18T11:54:22.338-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Twelfth and thirteenth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 12. The omission of the fact that the steel from the WTC buildings was quickly removed from the crime scene and shipped overseas before it could be analyzed for evidence of explosives (30). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;      &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 13. The omission of the fact that because Building 7 had been evacuated before it collapsed, the official reason for the rapid removal of the steel — that some people might still be alive in the rubble under the steel — made no sense in this case (30). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report addresses the events of the attack itself, and does not detail the clean-up process at Ground Zero.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 12. The claim inherent in the allegation is that the steel from the WTC buildings was quickly removed from the crime scene and shipped overseas before it could be analysed for evidence of explosives. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 13. The claim inherent in the allegation is that because Building 7 had been evacuated before it collapsed, the official reason for the rapid removal of the steel – that some people might still be alive in the rubble under the steel – made no sense in this case. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Complaints about the debris from the WTC disaster being removed without being analysed are one of the few Conspiracy Theory claims ever supported by the mainstream media:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses from the WTC in the days immediately after 9/11 means definitive answers may never be know.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Experts Urging Broader Inquiry In Towers' Fall&lt;br /&gt;New York Times, December 25, 2001  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;And professionals in the relevant fields:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the Happyland Social Club Fire? Did they cast aside the pressure-regulating valves at the Meridian Plaza Fire? Of course not. But essentially, that's what they're doing at the World Trade Center.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Manning, B.; $elling Out the Investigation&lt;br /&gt;Fire Engineering Magazine, January 2002  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Conspiracy Theorists often cite the rapid removal of steel as evidence that the WTC site was never treated as a crime scene, despite being the site of the worst crime in American history. This is often coupled with a claim that there has never been a criminal investigation of the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is, in fact, completely false. In earlier claims I referenced FBI press releases concerning the hijackers. The FBI did undertake a criminal investigation of the September 11 attacks, and it began with a low key press release on the day itself:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The FBI has established a location on the Internet for individuals to report information concerning today's incidents in the United States.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/sept11.htm" target="_blank"&gt;FBI Press Release, September 11, 2001&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;What began as a brief press release quickly became the largest criminal investigation in the FBI’s history. This investigation ultimately resulted in the successful prosecution of Zacarias Moussaoui who, on May 4 2006, was sentenced to serve six consecutive life terms without possibility of parole for his involvement in the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The magnitude of the FBI response is summarised in a testimony by Michael E. Rolince, Acting Assistant Director in Charge, Federal Bureau of Investigation, to the Senate Judiciary Committee on 25th June 2003.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the FBI's response was immediate. In a matter of hours we had deployed to each of the crash sites, ordered dozens of seasoned management personnel back to Washington, and fully staffed a 24/7 operation at our Command Center with up to 500 persons representing approximately 30 federal agencies. At the height of the 9/11 investigation, known as PENTTBOM, the FBI assigned 7,000 agents to assist full-time. The majority were reassigned from other national security and criminal investigative work. The lack of prior counterterroism training and experience, although not recognized by the OIG, needs to be factored into this discussion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Meanwhile, PENTTBOM became the largest and most complex investigation in the history of the FBI. In spite of operating under severe handicaps, the New York Office - relocated to a garage on 26th street, and lacking a proficient infrastructure - began a 24/7 operation utilizing 300 investigators from 37 agencies. The 1-800 toll-free line set up in our Atlanta office received 180,000 calls from a shocked public eager to assist. 225,000 e-mails were received on the FBI's internet site. Evidence response teams from throughout the country were dispatched to New York, Washington and Pittsburgh.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nationwide we covered over 500,000 investigative leads and conducted over 167,000 interviews. We collected over 7,500 pieces of evidence which were submitted for analysis. Working in conjunction with New York City agencies and authorities, we helped process over 1.8 million tons of debris for investigative leads and victim identification and took more than 45,000 crime scene photographs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/062503rolince.html" target="_blank"&gt;Testimony of Michael E. Rolince&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acting Assistant Director in Charge&lt;br /&gt;Federal Bureau of Investigation&lt;br /&gt;to the Senate Judiciary Committee, 25 June 2003  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;A document produced by Phillips and Jordan, Inc. gives some insight into the enormous scale of the Fresh Kills crime scene where the debris from the WTC site was processed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The last debris was processed on July 26, 2002, day 321 of the project. At the close of the Staten Island Landfill mission:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• 1,462,000 tons of debris had been received and processed&lt;br /&gt;• 35,000 tons of steel had been removed (165,000 tons were removed directly at Ground Zero)&lt;br /&gt;• 806,000 tons of debris had been screened, an average of 75 tons per hour&lt;br /&gt;• 14,968 workers had been through the PPE process&lt;br /&gt;• 43,600 people (39,795 NYPD, 6,212 non-NYPD) had been through the Site Specific Indoctrination&lt;br /&gt;• Over 1.7 million man hours had been worked&lt;br /&gt;• Over 55,000 discrete pieces of evidence had been recovered&lt;br /&gt;• 4,257 body parts had been recovered&lt;br /&gt;• 209 victims had been positively identified&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://disaster.pandj.com/World%20Trade%20Center%20Forensic%20Recovery.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The FBI supports this with their own specific information about the Fresh Kills crime scene:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   • The site covered 175 acres.&lt;br /&gt;• 24 local, state, and federal agencies participated, with as many as 1,000 workers a day&lt;br /&gt;• 17,000 tons of material were processed daily.&lt;br /&gt;• 55 FBI Evidence Response Teams worked the site -- over 1,000 agents -- plus FBI medics, safety officers, and other specialists.&lt;br /&gt;• New York Evidence Response Team members worked over 8,000 hours at the site, at the morgue, and at Ground Zero -- and one, Special Agent Gerry Fornino, personally worked over 1,818 hours at the vehicle recovery operation with the Port Authority and NYPD.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fbi.gov/page2/nov03/nyhs112703.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Furthermore, NIST – the agency that investigated the collapse of the towers – did have access to steel from the buildings, and used it in their study.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Within weeks of the destruction of the WTC, contractors of New York City had begun cutting up and removing the debris from the site. Members of the FEMA-sponsored and ASCE-led Building Performance Assessment Team, members of the Structural Engineers Association of New York, and Professor A. Astaneh-Asl of the University of California, Berkeley, CA, with support from the National Science Foundation, had begun work to identify and collect WTC structural steel from various recycling yards where the steel was taken during the clean-up effort. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (Port Authority) also collected structural steel elements for future exhibits and memorials.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Over a period of about 18 months, 236 pieces of steel were shipped to the NIST campus, starting about six months before NIST launched its Investigation. These samples ranged in size and complexity from a nearly complete three-column, three-floor perimeter assembly to bolts and small fragments.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;NIST NCSTAR1: Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, p.87  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Explosive residue is not the only sign of a controlled demolition. Use of explosives leaves a great deal of easily visible evidence including unique damage markings and remnants of materials used to carry out the detonation, including blasting caps, brackets used to secure explosives to columns, and thousands of feet of detonation cord. In regular demolitions these are littered throughout the debris pile in vast quantities.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;During the cleanup process at Ground Zero, approximately 40,000 people worked on the site. These people came from a diverse range of industries, with a wide range of experience and expertise. These included ironworkers, search and rescue teams, forensic scientists, FBI special agents, FBI evidence response teams, engineers, construction workers, military personnel, CIA agents, FEMA staff, aviation crash investigators, police officers, firemen, paramedics, and demolition crews. Not one single person who worked in this site has ever testified to having found any evidence of a controlled demolition, despite the fact that some have suffered severe medical harm and even death as a result of toxic dust at the site. People who are dying due to destroyed lungs because the government said it was safe to work at Ground Zero have no vested interest whatsoever in hiding evidence that the official account of the attacks is false.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin’s contention simply does not hold up to scrutiny. The vast majority (approximately 90%) of debris from the WTC disaster was repeatedly handled by literally thousands of experts whom would have immediately identified more obvious evidence of explosives. In addition it was also thoroughly examined (in the case of smaller pieces; by hand) by criminal investigators specifically looking for crime scene evidence.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of the larger steel pieces removed directly from the site to recycling yards, pieces were recovered and used in detailed analysis by NIST, refuting the allegation that they were immediately shipped overseas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In regard to the removal of WTC7 debris, Dr Griffin is making the error of treated the WTC1 and WTC2 debris separate to the WTC7 debris. As we have previously seen, the debris from the collapses was scattered over an enormous area. Immediately after the events, tens of thousands of people were feared dead or trapped in the wreckage. It is simply nonsensical to claim that authorities knew without a doubt no one was trapped in or near the WTC7 debris. In addition, in order to gain access to the central areas of the collapse site, first peripheral debris had to be cleared. Thus the rapid removal of all debris at Ground Zero, including debris from WTC7, was paramount.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 12. The inherent claim that the steel from the WTC buildings was quickly removed from the crime scene and shipped overseas before it could be analysed for evidence of explosives is rejected. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 13. The inherent claim, that because Building 7 had been evacuated before it collapsed, the official reason for the rapid removal of the steel – that some people might still be alive in the rubble under the steel – made no sense in this case, is rejected. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-131950479134299595?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/131950479134299595'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/131950479134299595'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/twelfth-and-thirteenth-lie.html' title='Twelfth and thirteenth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-2683122719091410802</id><published>2007-06-18T11:47:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-18T11:54:57.763-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Eleventh lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;11. The omission of Larry Silverstein's statement that he and the fire department commander decided to "pull" Building 7 (28).&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As previously mentioned, the 9/11 Commission Report does not mention the collapse of WTC7.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The only reference to Larry Silverstein or his company is:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Six weeks before the September 11 attacks, control of the WTC was transferred by net lease to a private developer, Silverstein Properties. (p.281) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The claim inherent in the allegation is that Larry Silverstein made a statement that he and the fire department commander decided to “pull” Building 7. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is also an implied claim in this allegation, which is revealed in Dr Griffin’s book; &lt;i&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report; Omissions and Distortions&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Because “pulling” a building is slang for having it demolished by explosives, this statement seems to say that Silverstein and the fire department decided to have the building deliberately destroyed. (pg.28) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The statement made by Silverstein appeared in the PBS documentary &lt;i&gt;America Rebuilds: A Year At Ground Zero&lt;/i&gt; which aired in September 2002.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;In an effort to implicate Silverstein, many Conspiracy Theorists repeatedly misquote Silverstein as saying &lt;i&gt;and we made that decision to pull it&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;An example is the exchange in this video between Mark Roberts and prominent 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Alex Jones, at Ground Zero on the 5th anniversary of the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The discussion of the quote begins at timecode 00:18:10:00.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1287461440043399975&amp;hl=en-GB"&gt;Video&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin makes this mistake by alleging that Silverstein and the FDNY together “made that decision to pull”, however Silverstein clearly states that the FDNY made this decision, not him.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The key question is what “pull” and “it” actually mean.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The person that called Silverstein was 32-year veteran Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro. After Chief of Department Peter Ganci died in the collapse of WTC1, Nigro took over FDNY operations at the World Trade Center. He supports Silverstein’s claim that the decision to “pull” was made by him, not Silverstein, and he adds insight into what “pull” and “it” referred to:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Fire Engineering Magazine&lt;/i&gt;, Volume 10 (October), 2002  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Other firefighters collaborate this version of events:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Yes, I watched 7. At one point, we were standing on the west side of West Street and Vesey. And I remember Chief Nigro coming back at that point saying I don't want anybody else killed and to take everybody two blocks up virtually to North End and Vesey, which is a good ways up. And we stood there and we watched 7 collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Fire Chief Joseph Pfeifer&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;WTC: This Is Their Story&lt;/i&gt;, Firehouse, 4/2002  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Consider two alternative explanations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“pull” = explosively implode, “it” = WTC7&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Or&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“pull” = withdraw, “it” = fire-fighting operations around WTC7&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The two alternative statements, therefore, are:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is explosively implode WTC7.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Or&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is withdraw fire-fighting operations around WTC7.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One of the above quotes is logical and makes sense.  The other is utterly absurd.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are a number of other basic logical problems with Dr Griffin’s interpretation of the statement. Assuming the FDNY did indeed to decide to explosively implode WTC7, there are only two possible scenarios.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Either&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The FDNY entered a severely damaged, structurally unsound, fire-engulfed building, rigged it with explosives in a matter of hours, detonated it, and then lied about it later&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Or&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The FDNY knew that WTC7 had been rigged with explosives prior to the attacks, detonated it, and lied about it later&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first scenario simply is not possible. Buildings take weeks and weeks to prep for a building implosion, involving careful planning. This is under ideal conditions, with full access to the building. WTC7 was, until the morning of 9/11, a fully occupied office building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The largest building ever brought down by implosion is the J.L. Hudson Department Store in Detroit, Michigan. It was demolished on 24th October, 1998 by Controlled Demolition Inc (CDI). The implosion of this building took nearly eight months to prepare for:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; CDI needed structural data to complete its design. Under CDI direction, NASDI/Homrich's 21 man crew needed 3 months to investigate the structure and 4 months to complete preparations per CDI's implosion design.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In 24 days, CDI's 12 person loading crew placed 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on 9 levels of the structure. Over 36,000 ft. of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay devices were installed in CDI's implosion initiation system.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.controlled-demolition.com/default.asp?reqLocId=6&amp;amp;reqItemId=20020304145120" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have previously highlighted some of the many FDNY accounts about the structural damage and severe fires at WTC7. Even assuming it were possible to rig a 2 million square foot building with explosives in a matter of hours, the notion that the FDNY (who do not carry out building demolitions) would enter such an unsafe building simply to blow it up is ridiculous.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thus, the only possible conclusion is that Dr Griffin is claiming WTC7 was rigged with explosives before the attacks occurred, and that the FDNY knew this before the building collapsed. Given the FDNY’s support of the official explanation for the collapses, Dr Griffin is therefore accusing the FDNY of, at least, accessory after the fact in the murder of nearly 3,000 people, if not direct involvement in the crime.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Three hundred and forty three of those victims were FDNY firefighters or paramedics, including the First Deputy Commissioner (William M. Feehan) and the Chief of Department (Peter Ganci).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the nearly six years since the attacks not one single firefighter has come forward and admitted the organisation’s role in the 9/11 attacks. None of the firemen whose work colleagues and in some cases relatives died in the attacks has confession in a panic of guilt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This particular Conspiracy Theory is perhaps the most distasteful and disrespectful of all 9/11 theories, as it accuses one of the groups that suffered most from the attacks of covering up, or potentially aiding in the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another problem with Dr Griffin’s theory is that he claims “pull” is demolition jargon for an explosive demolition, however there is no logical explanation for either Larry Silverstein (a property developer) or any member of the FDNY to use demolition jargon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The word “pull” is used in a wide variety of contexts to mean a variety of things, most relating to cancelling or withdrawing something.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A final problem with Dr Griffin’s claim is that “pull” is not demolition jargon for an explosive demolition, as explained by Brent Blanchard of Protec Documentation Services Inc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; We have never once heard the term “pull it” being used to refer to the explosive demolition of a building, and neither has any blast team we’ve spoken with. The term is used in conventional demolition circles, to describe the specific activity of attaching long cables to a pre-weakened building and maneuvering heavy equipment (excavators, bulldozers, etc.) to “pull” the frame of the structure over onto its side for further dismantlement. This author and our research team were on site when workers pulled over the six-story remains of WTC-6 in late fall 2001, however we can say with certainty that a similar operation would have been logistically impossible at Ground Zero on 9/11, physically impossible for a building the size of WTC7, and the structure did not collapse in that manner anyway.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE%20STUDY%20BBlanchard%208-8-06.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Had Conspiracy Theorists watched all of the PBS documentary from which they acquired Silverstein’s comments, they would already know this.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;Worker #1:&lt;/b&gt; Oh, we’re getting ready to pull building six.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Luis Mendes:&lt;/b&gt; We have to be very careful how we demolish building six. We were worried about the building six coming down and demolishing the slurry wall, so we wanted that particular building to fall within a certain area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Worker #1:&lt;/b&gt; We’ve got the cables attached in four different locations... &lt;”going up”? hard to hear&gt;... Now they’re pulling [gestures to vehicles] pulling the building to the north. It’s not every day you try to pull down a eight storey building with cables”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/PullBuildingSix.avi" target="_blank"&gt;America Rebuilds: A Year At Ground Zero&lt;/a&gt;, PBS, aired September 2002.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Controlled Demolition website ImplosionWorld.com confirms that none of the damaged buildings at the WTC site were demolished using explosives:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   ARE THERE ANY PLANS TO EXPLOSIVELY DEMOLISH THE REMAINS OF NEARBY BUILDINGS?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not at this time, and probably not in the future. Engineering officials have expressed concern over the risk of causing additional damage to sensitive underground liabilities such as subway tunnels and below-grade retaining walls. Therefore any future demolition activities will likely be performed piecemeal, using heavy equipment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Editor's update 12/20/01- With the removal of the 8-story U.S. Custom's House yesterday morning, all condemned structures have now been removed from the site. Explosives were not used in these operations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.implosionworld.com/wtc.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;This evidence, collectively, seems to suggest that Silverstein’s remarks were regarding firefighting operations at WTC7, and not some devious plot to blow the building up. And this is the version of events Silverstein himself supports:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducted a thorough investigation of the collapse of all the World Trade Center buildings. The FEMA report concluded that the collapse of Seven World Trade Center was a direct result of fires triggered by debris from the collapse of WTC Tower 1.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The inherent claim that Larry Silverstein made a statement that he and the fire department commander decided to “pull” Building 7 is rejected. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The implied claim that Silverstein and the fire department decided to have the building [WTC7] deliberately destroyed is rejected. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-2683122719091410802?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/2683122719091410802'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/2683122719091410802'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/eleventh-lie.html' title='Eleventh lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-6800401846495264791</id><published>2007-06-13T10:05:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-13T10:06:15.351-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Tenth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 10. The claim that the core of each of the Twin Towers was "a hollow steel shaft" — a claim that denied the existence of the 47 massive steel columns that in reality constituted the core of each tower and that, given the "pancake theory" of the collapses, should have still been sticking up many hundreds of feet in the air (27-28). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report does not discuss the design of the towers in the body of the text, however in the footnotes to Chapter Nine:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In addition, the outside of each tower was covered by a frame of 14-inch-wide steel columns; the centers of the steel columns were 40 inches apart. These exterior walls bore most of the weight of the building. The interior core of the buildings was a hollow steel shaft, in which elevators and stairwells were grouped. (pg.541) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are a number of inherent claims in this allegation:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;The claim inherent in the allegation is that 47 massive steel columns in reality constituted the core of each tower.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The claim inherent in the allegation is that, given the “pancake theory” of the collapses, [the core columns] should have still been sticking up many hundreds of feet in the air.&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As with previous discussions about the World Trade Center towers, the appropriate official document to refer to is the NIST report, not the 9/11 Commission Report.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; A second structural subsystem was located in a central service area, or core (Figure 1-5), approximately 135 ft by 87 ft, that extended virtually the full height of the building. The long axis of the core in WTC 1 was orientated in the east-west direction, while the long axis of the core in WTC 2 was orientated in the north-south direction (Figure 1-3). The 47 columns in this rectangular space were fabricated using primarily 36 ksi and 42 ksi steels and also decreased in size at the higher stories. The four massive corner columns bore nearly one-fifth of the total gravity load on the core columns. The core columns were interconnected by a grid of conventional steel beams to support the core floors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;NIST NCSTAR1 – Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, pg.8  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The description of the building core as a “hollow steel tube” does not necessarily deny the existence of the core columns. For example, NIST describes the exterior columns as a tube:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The first, the exterior structural subsystem, was a vertical square tube that consisted of 236 narrow columns, 59 on each face from the 10th floor to the 107th floor (Figure 1-3).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;NIST NCSTAR1 – Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, pg.6  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The WTC tower design has, since its creation, been commonly referred to as a "tube-within-a-tube design", as demonstrated by C P Wang, one of the key architects of the Taipei 101 tower:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;C. P. Wang:&lt;/b&gt; So we had an emergency meeting with the owner we tried to simulate what if the similar incident would happen to this building? We know the WTC in NY is basically a tube in a tube design with very thin exterior wall. It is a very smart and genius design to me but in Taipei with the earthquake and typhoon we are not able to do that. We need a very strong building and we have very big steel columns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Innovation: Life, Inspired - Episode One: Building to Extremes, aired February 10, 2004&lt;br /&gt;Thirteen/WNET&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/innovation/transcript_episode1.html" target="_blank"&gt;Episode Transcript&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A January 2002 article at &lt;i&gt;Graduating Engineer&lt;/i&gt; uses the same phrase:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The strength and redundancy of the structure itself, however, was the direct result of careful planning by the engineers who designed the buildings. The WTC towers utilized tube in tube construction, which provided primary support to the structures from external sheathing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.graduatingengineer.com/articles/feature/01-11-02a.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Although the 47 core columns were large, they accounted for a fraction of the total floor space of the core of the towers. Each core was 26m by 41m, totalling 1066m&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; in area. In contrast, at their largest dimensions in the base of the towers the core columns measured 0.3m by 1.3m, giving a footprint of 0.39m&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;, with a total footprint area of 18.3m&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; for all of the core columns – about 1.7% of the total core area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In Dr Griffin’s book &lt;i&gt;Omissions and Distortions&lt;/i&gt; he states:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; One of the major problems with the official account is why, even if the fire could have somehow caused the floors of the building to “pancake” (as the generally accepted explanation has it), the resulting pile of rubble was only a few stories high. Why were these massive steel columns not still sticking up hundreds of feet in the air?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Griffin, D.R.; &lt;u&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/u&gt;, pg.27-28  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;There are many problems with this statement by Dr Griffin, the first of which is the “pancake collapse” contention. This is addressed by NIST, who undertook the official investigation of the collapses:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm" target="_blank"&gt;NIST FAQ&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Another problem with Dr Griffin’s statement is that, as we have seen previously, the core of each tower did remain “sticking up hundreds of feet in the air” for some time after the initial collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These core sections did not remain standing for very long, for the simple reason that they were incapable of remaining standing. The core of the towers were never designed to stand on their own. With the majority of the structure gone, the cores were subjected to forces that greatly exceeded their structural limits.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A final problem with Dr Griffin’s assertion is his claim that the debris pile at ground zero was “only a few stories high”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In previous parts of this document I have provided links to numerous ground zero photographs, and more are included at the following links:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.zombietime.com/wtc_9-13-2001/" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.zombietime.com/wtc_9-13-2001/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.parrhesia.com/wtc/wtc-photos.htm" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.parrhesia.com/wtc/wtc-photos.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inherent claim  that 47 massive steel columns in reality constituted the core of each tower is accepted.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inherent claim that, given the “pancake theory” of the collapses, [the core columns] should have still been sticking up many hundreds of feet in the air is rejected.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The buildings did not suffer “pancake” collapses, video evidence reveals the core of each tower &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; remain standing for some time, and it is entirely expected that, bereft of the support of the rest of the structure, these core sections quickly collapsed.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-6800401846495264791?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/6800401846495264791'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/6800401846495264791'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/tenth-lie.html' title='Tenth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-8620516131817825397</id><published>2007-06-13T09:52:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-13T10:06:39.248-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Ninth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;!-- / icon and title --&gt;         &lt;!-- message --&gt;   &lt;div id="post_message_2680508"&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;      &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;9. The omission of the fact that the collapse of the Twin Towers (like that of Building 7) exemplified at least 10 features suggestive of controlled demolition (26-27).&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The term “controlled demolition” does not appear in the 9/11 Commission Report.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The claim inherent in the allegation is that the collapse of the Twin Towers (like that of Building 7) exemplified at least 10 features suggestive of controlled demolition. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The claim that WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 were destroyed by some form of controlled demolition is by far the most common Conspiracy Theory relating to the September 11 Attacks. While Theorists often disagree on other details of the attacks, and disagree on the method of demolition used (theories range from regular explosives through to more exotic methods such as orbiting energy weapons and nuclear explosives) almost all theorists agree that the buildings did not collapse as a result of fire and structural damage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In previous claims we have seen the efforts by Theorists to refute the accepted explanation for the collapses. This claim is the first to address the Theorists’ counter-explanation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In his book &lt;i&gt;Omissions and Distortions&lt;/i&gt;, Dr Griffin defines a “controlled demolition” as:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   …explosives placed throughout a building and set to go off in a particular order. (pg.26)  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Dr Griffin then proceeds to list the ten features suggestive of a controlled demolition. Dr Griffin does not, at any point, provide evidence that these are actually features present in a controlled demolition. We are expected to take his word for it. Dr Griffin is a Professor of Theology. He is not a demolition expert, in any shape or form. He provides no examples of other known controlled demolitions displaying the same characteristics, nor does he cite testimony of controlled demolition experts to support his claims.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I investigate each of the ten characteristics, there are a number of questions to bear in mind:&lt;br /&gt;1) Did the collapse of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 feature this characteristic?&lt;br /&gt;2) Do explosive controlled demolitions feature this characteristic?&lt;br /&gt;3) Is this characteristic unique to controlled demolitions?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unless the answer to all three questions is “yes”, the point has no validity.  By way of illustration:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;CHARACTERISTIC: &lt;i&gt;The buildings all fell downwards towards earth.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) &lt;i&gt;Yes, all three collapses on 9/11 featured this characteristic.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) &lt;i&gt;Yes, all explosive controlled demolitions feature this characteristic.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) &lt;i&gt;No, all buildings that collapse must fall downwards towards earth, due to gravity, regardless of what caused the collapse.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first step is to identify known building implosions.  Here is some examples:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;JL Hudson Department Store.  Detroit, Michigan.  Oct 24, 1998.  133m.  Tallest building ever imploded.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/khD2gZkkSu0"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/khD2gZkkSu0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First Hawaiian Bank Building.  Honolulu, Hawaii.  Jan 9, 1994.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ph7HzxcLEkI"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ph7HzxcLEkI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Wachovia Building.  Atlanta, Georgia.  Sept 30, 2006.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rQup2mWZyHU"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rQup2mWZyHU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Park Lane.  Dallas, Texas.  Date unknown.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BF55_-OAX5A"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BF55_-OAX5A" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Landmark Tower.  Forth Worth, Texas.  Mar 18, 2006.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/79sJ1bMR6VQ"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/79sJ1bMR6VQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Logicon Building.  San Pedro, California.  Aug 7, 2006.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ndzOT9oVLg0"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ndzOT9oVLg0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Intel Building.  Austin, Texas.  Feb 25, 2007.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4nm4wVoe6Z8"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4nm4wVoe6Z8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Aladdin Hotel &amp;amp; Casino.  Las Vegas, Nevada.  Apr 27, 1998.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cRaNwPGcQcM"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cRaNwPGcQcM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tencza Terrace Apartment Building.  Fort Myer, Florida.  Jun 4, 2006.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h0S-vlpU1BE"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h0S-vlpU1BE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Two 16-story buildings.  Edinburgh, Scotland.  Nov 26, 2006.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_5SMN8YBU7I"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_5SMN8YBU7I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;50 High St.  Buffalo, New York.  May 25, 2007.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qX_HYQS76OE"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qX_HYQS76OE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;CN Building.  London, Ontario.  Date unknown.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DKkYKa1XMTI"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DKkYKa1XMTI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, on to the characteristics:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;1. Each collapse occurred at virtually free-fall speed.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Free fall is the speed an object falls at when the only force applied to the object is gravity. Free fall can only occur in a vacuum as any object falling through an atmosphere will experience friction from the atmosphere which will slow its descent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acceleration due to earth’s gravity is 9.8ms&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The time taken for an object to free fall a given distance can be calculated using the formula:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img title="$$ t={\sqrt{\frac{2d}{g}}} $$" src="http://www.randi.org/latexrender/latex.php?$$%20t=%7B%5Csqrt%7B%5Cfrac%7B2d%7D%7Bg%7D%7D%7D%20$$" alt="$$ t={\sqrt{\frac{2d}{g}}} $$" align="middle" /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where d = the distance fallen and g = acceleration due to gravity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The height of the three buildings in question were:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC1 = 417m&lt;br /&gt;WTC2 = 415m&lt;br /&gt;WTC7 = 174m&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thus the time for free fall from the top of each building would be:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC1 = 9.2s&lt;br /&gt;WTC2 = 9.2s&lt;br /&gt;WTC7 = 5.9s&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The key word in Dr Griffin’s claim is “virtually”. Because objects falling under force of gravity are in a constant state of acceleration, minor changes in time can result in significant height changes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For example, although an object falling 415m would do so in 9.2 seconds, in 10.2 seconds – only one second longer – an object would fall 509m, almost 100m further. An object falling for 11.2 seconds – only two seconds longer – would fall 614m. The distance increases exponentially, so that by the time you double the duration of the fall – to 18.4 seconds, the object would fall 1,659m – almost four times as far! If you multiply the time by four times, the distance fallen will increase by sixteen times.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is difficult to determine the precise time that each collapse lasted, for several reasons. Firstly, when the collapses occurred they sent up huge walls of dust and debris that covered the ground and obscured the latter stages of the collapse. Secondly, anyone close to the building during the collapse was desperately running for their lives rather than filming the event.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While determining the precise duration of the collapse is difficult, it is a little easier to determine whether the collapse occurred near to free fall speed or not.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This page has a video frame analysis of the collapse of both towers:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/timeline/videos.html" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/...ne/videos.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Note that at 16 seconds the collapse wave of WTC1 is just passing the top of WTC7, which is itself 174m high. Quite clearly WTC1 collapsed significantly slower than free fall speed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC2’s collapse wave is still above WTC7 at 14 seconds, thus it too collapsed significantly slower than free fall.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In regards to WTC7, the following video is telling:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc_7_cbs.mpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.911research.com/wtc/evide.../wtc_7_cbs.mpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The collapse begins with the failure of the building’s east mechanical penthouse at about 5s (you will see part of the top left of the building collapse). At 18s the building disappears from view, and has not yet reached the ground. Thus we know that WTC7 took longer than 13s to collapse – more than twice as long as at free fall speed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is somewhat a moot point whether imploded buildings fall near free fall speed, as clearly none of the buildings that collapsed on 9/11 shared this characteristic.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;2. Each building collapsed straight down, for the most part into its own footprint.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is certainly a characteristic of building implosions. Indeed, it’s arguably the most important requirement of a building implosion. When demolition experts collapse buildings using explosives they have to ensure debris does not damage any surrounding structures.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But what about the buildings on 9/11?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It should be evident to anyone that neither of the towers fell even remotely into their own footprint. The entire World Trade Center site was totally destroyed by the collapse of the towers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FEMA’s &lt;i&gt;World Trade Center Building Performance Study&lt;/i&gt; provides a comprehensive analysis of the condition of buildings affected by the collapse of the towers and WTC7:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch3.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter Three – WTC3&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch4.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter Four – WTC 4, 5 and 6&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter Five – WTC7&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch6.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter Six – Bankers Trust Building (Deutsche Bank)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch7.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter Seven – Peripheral Buildings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On Page 3 of Chapter 7 they present a table of 56 buildings damaged in the attacks, spread across 25 city blocks as well as the entire World Trade Center site and World Financial Center complex.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of the 56 buildings, five were totally destroyed, three suffered partial collapses that resulted in total structural instability, eleven suffered significant structural damage, and the remaining thirty-seven suffered moderate damage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When WTC7 collapsed, it fell onto 30 West Broadway, a 17-story concrete and steel structure known as Fiterman Hall.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Damage inflicted on 30 West Broadway was severe:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The southern half of the west façade and most of the south façade was severely damaged or destroyed. The south face of the building suffered structural damage in the exterior bay from impact by large debris from WTC7 (Figure 7-13).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FEMA World Trade Center Building Performance Study&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch7.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter Seven – Peripheral Buildings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pg 7-13  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;This image is an example of the damage inflicted on the building:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/fig-7-13.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/...c/fig-7-13.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;30 West Broadway was not immediately next to WTC7.  As the following diagram shows, it was on the far side of Barclay Street.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.svg" target="_blank"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:W..._Site_Plan.svg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Barclay Street is not a narrow alley, but a four lane road. Damage to 30 West Broadway was so severe that the building is being demolished, as reported by WNBC on October 30th, 2006:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At a public hearing Monday night, the City University of New York -- the owner of Fiterman Hall, which is part of the Borough of Manhattan Community College campus -- detailed its plan to clean and then demolish the office-style building, previously used for classrooms and offices.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.wnbc.com/news/10195995/detail.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Clearly it is incorrect to claim that WTC7 fell straight down into its own footprint.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;3. Virtually all of the concrete was turned into very fine dust&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is one of the stranger assertions Dr Griffin makes. Simple logic dictates this is not true, for either 9/11 or confirmed explosive demolitions. The purpose of a building implosion is to collapse a building quickly in a contained space, so that removal of debris can be achieved quickly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Turning all of the concrete in a building into dust does not in any way aid the demolition process. Dust is a problem for demolition companies, and during demolition debris piles are often sprayed with fire hoses in an effort to keep the level of dust to a minimum. Concrete is much easier to contain and remove when in large pieces than in dust form. Turning the concrete to dust does not assist in collapse, and an enormous amount of explosives would be required simply to achieve this, for no added benefit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is simply illogical to think that any building implosion would result in “virtually all of the concrete” being turned “into very fine dust”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The question remains, was all of the concrete in the buildings turned into dust?  The simple answer is no, it wasn’t.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The only substantial use of concrete in the towers was the 4 inch layer on each floor pan, amounting to a little over 11,000m&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt; of concrete per tower.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although dust covered much of lower Manhattan after the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2, an analysis of the dust suggests concrete did not play a significant component.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Microscopic analysis of WTC dust by Nicholas Petraco, BS, MS, DABC, FAAFS, FNYMS at The New York Microscopic Society lecture held at AMNH 28 May 2003&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;45.1% Fiberglass, rock wool (insulation, fireproofing)&lt;br /&gt;31.8% Plaster (gypsum), concrete products (calcium sulfate, selenite, muscodite)&lt;br /&gt;7.1% Charred wood and debris&lt;br /&gt;2.1% Paper fibers&lt;br /&gt;2.1% Mica flakes&lt;br /&gt;2.0% Ceiling tiles (fiberglass component)&lt;br /&gt;2.0% Synthetic fibers&lt;br /&gt;1.4% Glass fragments&lt;br /&gt;1.3% Human remains&lt;br /&gt;1.4% Natural fibers&lt;br /&gt;trace asbestos (it became illegal to use during the construction of the WTC)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other trace elements: aluminum, paint pigments, blood, hair, glass wool with resin, and prescription drugs were found.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/004194.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The data of interest here is the 31.8% consisting of plaster and concrete products. Gypsum is a very brittle material that easily crumbles into an exceedingly fine white dust. Concrete is a hard rock-like substance that only breaks into dust under enormous forces.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gypsum was used as drywall in the WTC in enormous quantities, especially in the building core. During the collapse this drywall would have quickly become a fine white powder.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unfortunately the analysis of the dust does not distinguish between gypsum and concrete products by percentage, however it is logical and likely that the majority of the 31.8% cited is gypsum, and not concrete.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Finally, a close inspection of photos from Ground Zero reveals that concrete was present at the site in large quantities.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Such as the following collections:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://911da.org/crr/images/CRRDB/World%20Trade%20Center/Debris%20Removal.htm" target="_blank"&gt;http://911da.org/crr/images/CRRDB/Wo...%20Removal.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Elangford/wtc/" target="_blank"&gt;http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Elangford/wtc/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Further, an estimate of debris at Ground Zero by Phillips and Jordan, Inc. (the company that managed the disposal of debris from the WTC and managed the crime scene support facilities) indicates large quantities of concrete were present:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The initial debris estimate included 125,000 tons of glass, 250,000 tons of steel, 450,000 cubic yards of concrete, 12,000 miles of electrical cable, and 198 miles of ductwork.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://disaster.pandj.com/World%20Trade%20Center%20Forensic%20Recovery.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Clearly virtually all of the concrete in the buildings was not turned into very fine dust.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;4. In the case of the Twin Towers, the dust was blown out horizontally for 200 feet or more.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Both the collapses on 9/11 and building implosions involve large clouds of dust travelling great distances. This should really be of no surprise. Any sort of destruction of a building will produce dust particles. Buildings contain plaster, concrete, masonry, light fittings, fibreglass, fireproofing materials, and a multitude of other things which will break into dust under significant forces. Dust is very easily blown great distances by wind, and building collapses of any kind produce wind.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The following videos all depict building collapse that are not implosions, but that produce clouds of dust that spread over large areas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qq0C1IGSMNk"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qq0C1IGSMNk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x2h8qZRheks"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x2h8qZRheks" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YCfgfccpHpc"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YCfgfccpHpc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NqRN63iDTqA"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NqRN63iDTqA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DZ1e3ddf3RM"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DZ1e3ddf3RM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LHbC9gc_Ylo"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LHbC9gc_Ylo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;5. The collapses were total, leaving no steel columns sticking up hundreds of feet into the air.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This simply isn’t true, in regard to the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.indybay.org/olduploads/wtc_core.mpg" target="_blank"&gt;WTC2 Collapse video&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC1 Collapse video.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SYUx5zJ3yss"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SYUx5zJ3yss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Both of these videos reveal large sections of the core of each building standing after the remainder of the structure has collapsed. In the case of WTC1, this section was considerably higher than WTC7, thus over 174m (570ft) high.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These sections obviously did not remain standing – the core of the buildings were never intended to stand on their own.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other post-collapse photos such as this one:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.newyorkcitycommunity.com/images/p9200005.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.newyorkcitycommunity.com/images/p9200005.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Show sections of the exterior columns standing. The highest point of the façade in the above photo is the 18th floor – 65m (213ft) high.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC7 collapsed in a different way.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.bibleetnombres.online.fr/images19/wtc7_debris.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.bibleetnombres.online.fr/...tc7_debris.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As the above image shows, the exterior wall of WTC7 fell on top of the debris pile. This would have crushed and broken any columns still standing upright.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;6. Videos of the collapses reveal “demolition waves,” meaning “confluent rows of small explosions.”&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin cites this claim as coming from an article written by Jeff King at the following website:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://st12.startlogic.com/%7Exenonpup/collapse%20update/" target="_blank"&gt;http://st12.startlogic.com/~xenonpup/collapse%20update/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jeff King is a Conspiracy Theorist who thinks the tower collapses produced “pyroclastic flows”. Pyroclastic flows are clouds of super-heated gases as hot as 1000degreesC travelling as fast as 700km/h, and are only produced by volcanic eruptions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jeff King alleges:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Instead of the kind of slow start we would expect near the beginning of a gravitational collapse we see high speed “demolition waves” coming directly toward us, with another set shooting out to the left, from the east side of the building. These are exactly the sort of confluent rows of small explosions that are so characteristic of a controlled demolition, and can be seen emerging in flat rings extending all the way around the tower and propagating rapidly downward. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;However inspection of the numerous building implosions provided reveals that they do not share this characteristic. In building implosions, instead, the façade more often remains relatively intact as it collapses downwards, until it hits the ground. This is because building implosions are initiated by internal structural failures.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The “disintegration” that occurs in the WTC collapses is a direct result of the exterior columns peeling away and the floors collapsing one atop the other in succession. This is because the towers collapsed due to an external failure.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC7, which NIST hypothesises collapsed due to internal failure shares the relatively intact falling façade of a building implosion, and does not feature the characteristic claimed by Dr Griffin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7. Most of the steel beams and columns came down in sections that were no more than 30 feet long.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As mentioned above, WTC7 collapsed with the exterior façade relatively intact. As previously discussed this façade fell atop the debris pile. As a result it is impossible to determine what size segments the columns of WTC7 broke into.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In regards to WTC1 and WTC2 there are numerous collapse photographs and post-collapse photographs and videos of sufficient resolution to determine that the core and exterior columns fell primarily in small sections.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The reason for this is simple.  That’s how long they are.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Building columns are not single enormous lengths of steel, but rather small lengths joined together. In the specific case of the WTC towers, NIST NCSTAR1-1 provides information on the length of these sections on pages 10 and 11. Diagrams on page 25 and 26 illustrate the prefabricated exterior panels.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The exterior panels consisted of three columns 11m in length joined by 1.3m wide spandrel plates at each floor level. The 3m by 11m panels were each three stories high, and spliced half way through a floor. The panels were staggered across the face of the building to improve strength.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The core columns were spliced in three story lengths as well, thus each section of core column was also 11m long.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Despite this, the steel did not break apart evenly or neatly, and ironworkers worked at Ground Zero during clean up cutting steel into lengths that could be more easily removed, as these images demonstrate:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/uploads/0034.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/uploads/0034.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/technical-widening-about-thermal.html" target="_blank"&gt;http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/200...t-thermal.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;8. According to many witnesses, explosions were heard in the buildings.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The overwhelmingly most distinct characteristic of all of the implosion videos I have presented is deafening explosions prior to and sometimes during collapse. These are not minor explosions, but sounds loud enough to peak a camera microphone from a considerable distance away. They are unmistakable.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Certainly there are conflicting witness testimonies of explosions on 9/11. However, they are almost exclusively from inside the buildings, and are often taken out of context. For example the actual collapses themselves were almost universally described as a “huge explosion”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html" target="_blank"&gt;This page&lt;/a&gt; has a good summary of the flaws in the “loud noise means explosives” argument.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What is most compelling is there is literally hours of footage from 9/11 taken in and around the towers prior to and at the moment of collapse. Not one video camera captured the deafening explosions that are the distinct mark of a building implosion. Yet in all of the building implosion videos I have provided, explosions are clearly captured from considerable distances away.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;9. Each collapse was associated with detectable seismic vibrations (suggestive of underground explosions).&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York recorded the collapse of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 on their seismographs. In addition on 9/11 Protec (an explosive demolition documentation company) had a number of portable seismographs monitoring construction sites in the area that also detected the collapses.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Brent Blanchard, Director of Field Operations at Protec, wrote a paper refuting Conspiracy Theorist claims that the buildings were demolished using explosives. In the paper he addresses seismograph data:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In all cases where seismographs detected the collapses, waveform readings indicate a single, gradually ascending and descending level of ground vibration during the event. At no point during 9/11 were sudden or independent vibration “spikes” documented by any seismograph, and we are unaware of any entity possessing such data.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The Columbia University data is available on their &lt;a href="http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/WTC_20010911.html" target="_blank"&gt;website&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In their investigation of 9/11 Conspiracy Theory claims, Popular Mechanics talked to Arthur Lerner-Lam, a seismologist at the observatory:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5" target="_blank"&gt;Popular Mechanics: Debunking 9/11 Myths&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Applying simply logic, both towers are clearly seen collapsing from the top, and as previously discussed, the cores of each tower remained standing for some time after the initial collapse. Had the towers been destroyed due to underground explosions as Dr Griffin asserts, these observable phenomena could not have occurred.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;10. Each collapse produced molten steel (which would be produced by explosives), resulting in “hot spots” that remained for months.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is perhaps the strangest of Dr Griffin’s claimed characteristics, in that, if true, it refutes the implosion theory. Explosives work by producing enormous amounts of over pressure in a very short space of time, shattering and breaking steel and concrete. Explosives do not generate significant amounts of heat, and what heat is produced is quickly dissipated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Explosives simply cannot produce enough heat to liquefy steel, which melts at around 1,500&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt;C depending on the precise composition of the alloy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On the other hand, when the towers and WTC7 collapsed they had raging infernos inside them as we previously saw. They were also full of large quantities of flammable material which was buried.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Underground fires can burn for very long periods of time, at very high temperatures:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Australia is the home of one of the world's few naturally burning coal seams, Burning Mountain Nature Reserve, in northeastern New South Wales.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The lack of oxygen underground means the fire burns slowly, and with 6 km of burnt area, the fire is estimated to be about 5,500 years old.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The fire temperature [sic] reaches temperatures of 1,700°C deep beneath the ground.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/enviro/EnviroRepublish_786127.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In their FAQ, NIST refute Dr Griffin’s interpretation of alleged molten steel:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm" target="_blank"&gt;NIST FAQ&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;In addition, although the fires at the WTC did continue to burn in the debris pile, there’s certainly doubt whether there really was molten steel. The website 911myths.com addresses the matter &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html" target="_blank"&gt;in depth&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin presents ten characteristics that he asserts (without justification) are evidence of a controlled demolition of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7. As shown, the collapse of these buildings did not display many of these characteristics, others are not characteristics of any confirmed building implosions, and other characteristics are common in other building collapse situations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inherent claim that the collapse of the Twin Towers (like that of Building 7) exemplified at least 10 features suggestive of controlled demolition is rejected.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-8620516131817825397?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/8620516131817825397'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/8620516131817825397'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/lie-nine.html' title='Ninth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-3724628188080069765</id><published>2007-06-13T09:48:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-06-13T10:07:10.620-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Lies Six, Seven, and Eight</title><content type='html'>&lt;!-- / icon and title --&gt;         &lt;!-- message --&gt;   &lt;div id="post_message_2680293"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;      &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 6. The omission of the fact that the fires in the Twin Towers were not very big, very hot, or very long-lasting compared with fires in several steel-frame buildings that did not collapse (25-26). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 7. The omission of the fact that, given the hypothesis that the collapses were caused by fire, the South Tower, which was struck later than the North Tower and also had smaller fires, should not have collapsed first (26). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 8. The omission of the fact that WTC 7 (which was not hit by an airplane and which had only small, localized fires) also collapsed — an occurrence that FEMA admitted it could not explain (26). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The above allegations all relate directly to the intensity of the fires in WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7. As such I have grouped these claims together, to avoid repeating the same information multiple times.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The 9/11 Report does not address any of the matters above, and indeed it does not mention the collapse of WTC7 at all. The scope of its summary is limited to the 102 minutes between the impact of AA11 on WTC1, and that building collapsing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Before proceeding with investigating these matters, it is important reiterate that the 9/11 Commission Report was released over a year before the NIST report released its final report on the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2. NIST has not yet released their final report on the collapse of WTC7.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In 2002 NIST was given the mandate of investigating the collapse of these three buildings, and their exhaustive investigation is both comprehensive and highly technical. The NIST investigation is the official government-approved investigation into the collapse of these buildings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The 9/11 Commission was not mandated to investigate the specific details of the collapses, nor, were it given this mandate, did it possess the expertise or resources to conduct such an investigation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As Dr. Griffin’s book was published in 2005, it is understandable that it does not cite the final NIST report, which was not released until late 2005.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However it is not reasonable that Dr Griffin was unaware that NIST was conducting their investigation. Between May 2002 and July 2004 NIST released six interim reports containing summaries of their progress to date in their investigations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Furthermore, it is neither reasonable, nor understandable that Dr Griffin continues to raise these specific concerns over 18 months after the release of the final report by NIST. This behaviour is one of intellectual dishonesty.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important at all times to bear the above points in mind, when considering the allegations raised by Dr Griffin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 6. The claim inherent in the allegations is that the fires in the Twin Towers were not very big, very hot, or very long-lasting compared with fires in several steel-frame buildings that did not collapse. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 7. The claim inherent in the allegation is that, given the hypothesis that the collapses were caused by fire, the South Tower, which was struck later than the North Tower and also had smaller fires, should not have collapsed first. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;    &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 8. The claim inherent in the allegation is that WTC 7 (which was not hit by an airplane and which had only small, localized fires) also collapsed — an occurrence that FEMA admitted it could not explain. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In investigating these claims, I will first assess the nature of the fires in WTC1 and WTC2 and how they contributed to the collapse of the towers. This directly addresses claims (6) and (7).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will secondly analyse the fires on 9/11 in relation to other high-rise fires, in order to address the second part of claim (6).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lastly, I will consider the fires in WTC7, in an effort to investigate claim (8).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In his book &lt;i&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/i&gt;, Dr Griffin asserts:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; A second problem is that the fires, especially in the South Tower and WTC-7, were quite small. We have all seen the pictures of the giant fireball after the South Tower was hit. This fireball did not signal a raging fire inside, however, but the opposite. There was such a big fireball outside because the building was struck near a corner, so that much of the jet fuel burned up outside. There was, accordingly, not much fuel to feed the fire inside. Photographs show, in fact, that not a single floor beyond the fire’s starting location was hot enough to ignite paper or plastic or to break windows.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Griffin, D.R.; &lt;u&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/u&gt;, pg.25  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 were each estimated to be carrying 37,800 litres (10,000 gallons) of Jet-A fuel when they hit the towers. AA11 hit between floors 94 and 98 of WTC1, and UA175 hit between floors 78 and 84 of WTC2.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Three videos are known to have captured the impact of AA11, however these do not capture the impact clearly. In contrast, when UA175 impacted WTC2, the eyes of the world were already turned to the area. The impact was witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people in the NY/NJ area, it was broadcast live on news networks such as CNN, and it was captured in dozens of videos and photographs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A compilation of aircraft impact videos can we watched here:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ThPTduiA5jI"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ThPTduiA5jI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As part of their investigation, NIST used these videos and photographs in a paper calculating how much fuel was burned in the initial fireball.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Adding up the contributions of the three fireballs and integrating over the 2.5 s that elapse before the fireballs begin to rise give an estimate of 1.6 X 10&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt; kg of fuel consumed, assuming the energy content of the fuel to be 43 MJ/kg. This result should be considered a lower bound on the fuel consumption in the fireball for at least two reasons. First, it assumes complete combustion of the fuel. Second, it takes no account of the additional burning that occurred after the fireballs began to rise. This result is consistent with results based on the CFD simulations displayed in Fig. 6 of [8]. These calculations reproduce the fireball shown in Fig. 4 quite accurately for assumed total fuel burns varying from 10% to 25% of the estimated fuel load of 2.8 X 10&lt;sup&gt;4&lt;/sup&gt; kg carried by the plane. In fact, if the time spanned was extended to 3–4 s (which ignores the increasingly important effects of fireball merging and buoyancy), then the fuel consumed in the fireballs according to this model would completely overlap the CFD based predictions of [8]. Thus, most of the fuel was available to serve as an ignitor for the fires that helped to destroy these buildings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire05/PDF/f05179.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Allowing the higher threshold of fuel burned (25%) that still leaves over 28,000 litres of fuel to start fires in the building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most startling of all is Dr Griffin’s assertion that &lt;i&gt;photographs show, in fact, that not a single floor beyond the fire’s starting location was hot enough to ignite paper or plastic or to break windows&lt;/i&gt;. The fires were located inside a steel skyscraper, hundreds of feet in the air. Every person who was in or near the area of impact for more than a matter of minutes is dead. Not a single photograph exists that was taken in or near the area of impact.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin’s assertion is senseless, and his claim that photographs exist to support it is an outright lie – an ironic predicament considering the topic of his Essay.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What we do have available to us is countless photographs and hours of video footage of the &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; of the towers, and the ten thousand pages of NIST’s comprehensive investigation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On pages 25 to 28 of NIST NCSTAR1, diagrams depict visual observations of fire on the four faces of WTC1. Extensive fires were observed on every floor from the 92nd to the 98th.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This itself refutes Dr Griffin’s claim that fires did not move beyond the immediate impact floors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Images such as these:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/wtc29.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/wtc29.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/WTC_on_fire9.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/WTC_on_fire9.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Further illustrate the intensity of the fires in the WTC.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Page 43 of NIST NCSTAR1 has a diagram depicting observable fires in WTC2 on every floor from the 78th to the 83rd.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Again, it is important to reiterate that these are fires observed from the &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; of the building.  They should be taken as an absolute &lt;i&gt;minimum&lt;/i&gt; indicator of the extent of the fires.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important to remember that the design of the towers restricts the ability to determine events occurring inside. In conventional skyscraper design, the façade is not load-bearing, and is usually predominantly made of glass. In contrast, the exterior façade of the towers was comprised of tightly-spaced load-bearing steel columns, with very narrow windows between them. As a result a smaller percentage of the façade allowed a visual observation of internal fires.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Numerous first responders and civilian witnesses reported that the fires in the WTC were so intense they could feel the heat on their faces from the street below.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Further testimony of the heat of the fires is found in the NYPD’s aviation unit, which was dispatched to the WTC shortly after the impact of AA11, and nearly collided with UA175.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; As the helicopter approached the northwest corner of the WTC 1 roof, aircrew members observed that window washing machinery and equipment was in the way. Then, one of the aircrew monitoring instruments on the aircraft noted that the engine temperature suddenly began to rise. The pilot was informed, and the helicopter retreated from the approach, reporting that roof operations were not possible at that time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;NIST NCSTAR1-8 - The Emergency Response Operations, pg.51  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;NIST put extensive work in to determining the temperature of the fires in the World Trade Center.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conspiracy Theorist will often make statements similar to the following in the film &lt;i&gt;9/11 Mysteries&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; A myth developed, fed by official sources through the media to a bewildered audience. Elements of the myth: the impact of the airplanes, gallons of burning jet fuel, steel melting, the buildings failing and suddenly imploding. In a mere 10 seconds, 110 stories hurtled earthward - pulverizing into dust.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;9/11 Mysteries, TC:00:02:38:00  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The above is a type of logical fallacy called a “Straw Man”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Dr Griffin also makes this mistake in his book:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; A fourth problem is that, even had the fires been raging throughout the Twin Towers and Building 7, they would not have been nearly hot enough to melt steel, because ordinary hydrocarbon fires – such as fires based on jet fuel (kerosene) – can at most rise to 1700&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; Fahrenheit, whereas steel begins to melt only at about 2770&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; F.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Griffin, D.R.; &lt;u&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/u&gt;, pg.26  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;NIST address the straw man argument of “melting steel” in their FAQ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers &lt;i&gt;melted&lt;/i&gt; due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm" target="_blank"&gt;http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;This is supported elsewhere by the experts, such as an article for the journal of The Minerals, Metals &amp; Materials Society (TMS):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about half of its strength at 650°C.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eagar, W.T and Musso, C. (MIT)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html" target="_blank"&gt;Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?  Science, Engineering, and Speculation&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;JOM, 53(12) (2001) pg 8-11  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;And other investigations have produced similar opinions from the experts:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; "Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4" target="_blank"&gt;Debunking The 9/11 Myths&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Popular Mechanics, March 2005  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;i&gt;Chapter 6:10 – Thermal Environment Modeling&lt;/i&gt;, of NIST NCSTAR1 (starting page 121) recounts their investigation of the extent and temperature of fires in the WTC.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Using controlled experimentation techniques, NIST determined upper-limit temperatures of 1000&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; C; ample temperature to drastically reduce the load-bearing capacity of the columns and truss assemblies in the towers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As demonstrated previously, Conspiracy Theorists often present the tower collapses as being primarily or even solely a result of fire, totally ignoring important aspects of the day’s events such as the aircraft impact and shredding of fire proofing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These are vital elements of the collapse sequence, and cannot be overlooked. These elements were quite different in each of the towers, and they help to explain why WTC2 collapse so much sooner than WTC1.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ultimately, all building collapses are caused by gravity. When the supports holding a mass off the ground are no longer capable of resisting the force of gravity which is drawing that mass towards the earth’s surface, the supports will fail and collapse will occur.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A greater mass has greater Gravitational Potential Energy (GPE) and thus requires stronger support.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In comparing the two towers on 9/11, it is immediately clear that WTC2 had much more mass above the impact point that WTC1. There were more than twice as many floors above the impact point of WTC2 compared with WTC1. This immediately means the gravity load acting on the damaged floor area is much greater.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another important factor to consider is impact damage in each building. The aircraft impacts contributed to the collapse by spreading jet-fuel through many floors, but they also severed columns and damaged floor trusses in the impact area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;UA175 hit the towers travelling considerably faster than AA11. A relatively simple way to illustrate the significance of speed in impact is to calculate the total Kinetic Energy released in the impact. Kinetic energy can be calculated using the formula:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;KE = ½mv&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where m = the mass of the aircraft and v = the velocity of the aircraft.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At impact AA11 weighed approximately 110,000kg and was travelling at approximately 220ms&lt;sup&gt;-1&lt;/sup&gt; (490 MPH).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;KE = 0.5 X 110,000 (220 X 220)&lt;br /&gt;KE = 0.5 X 110,000 X 48,400&lt;br /&gt;KE = 2,662,000,000J&lt;br /&gt;KE = 2.6GJ&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In contrast, UA175, also weighing approximately 110,000kg, was travelling at over 260ms&lt;sup&gt;-1&lt;/sup&gt; (590 MPH).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;KE = 0.5 X 110,000 (260 X 260)&lt;br /&gt;KE = 0.5 X 110,000 X 67,600&lt;br /&gt;KE = 3,718,000,000J&lt;br /&gt;KE = 3.7GJ&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As you can see, UA175 had 42% more energy at impact than AA11. This meant 42% more energy to sever columns and shred critical fireproofing from steel elements. It meant 42% more energy to destroy floor truss assemblies.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These factors are important as they contributed to the sequence of events that resulted in building collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A further important factor in the collapse sequence was the nature of fireproofing on the steel in the buildings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The average thickness of spray-applied fireproofing on the trusses was ¾ inch. In the mid-1990’s a decision was made to upgrade the fire protection by applying additional material onto the trusses so as to increase fireproofing thickness to 1-1/2 inches. The fireproofing upgrade was applied to individual floors as they became vacant. By September 11, 2001, a total of 31 stories had been upgraded, including the entire impact zone in WTC 1 (floors 94-98), but only the 78th floor in the impact zone in WTC 2 (floors 78-84).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FEMA World Trade Center Building Performance Study&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch2.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Chapter 2: WTC 1 and WTC 2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Page 2-12  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;As we have previously seen, NIST’s summary of the collapse sequence is:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm" target="_blank"&gt;NIST FAQ&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;It was the fire’s affect on the trusses that caused the sagging and ultimately led to the failure of the exterior columns, thus the thickness of the fireproofing on the floor trusses was a crucial element in how rapidly collapse occurred.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Steel columns perform well under compression, with the force of their gravity load applied directly along the length of the column. However as the columns were pulled inwards the load started to include a lateral load. Columns perform poorly under lateral loading. For a simple practical example of the forces at play:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Take a regular drinking straw and apply force directly along its length. Considering it is made only of thin plastic, it is surprisingly strong. Now bend the straw slightly. You will find it will fold over completely under only a small amount of force. This is a crude example of the difference.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As the floor trusses sagged more and more the steel columns were pulled further into the building, and the lateral load increased. At a critical point this lateral loading deformed the columns to the point that they were no longer capable of holding up the massive weight of the floors above.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This was further exacerbated because the aircraft impact had severed columns in the core and exterior, thus increasing the load on the remaining columns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The bowing of the exterior columns was observed across the entire south (WTC1) and east (WTC2) face of the building, thus when the columns failed, the entire wall failed at once. The results were catastrophic.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The asymmetrical nature of the failure caused the top of the building in each case to twist. Although the columns in the buildings were large, they represented a tiny fraction of the total area of a given floor – the footprint of all of the core columns and exterior columns amounted to a little over 1% of the area of one floor. Once the top section twisted only a matter of a few inches, these columns no longer lined up, and nothing was left to hold the upper mass of floors up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a faction of a second the upper mass began to descend. Because the columns no longer lined up, the full impact energy was exerted on the light weight truss assembly of the first floor below the aircraft impact zone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The floor trusses were designed only to carry the static gravity load of a single floor, not the mass of seventeen floors (WTC1) or thirty three floors (WTC2). They certainly could not resist a dynamic load that great. The enormous difference between a static and dynamic load can be easily illustrated. Take a heavy bowling ball, and place it on your foot. Then take the same bowling ball, lift it to eye height, and drop it on your foot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The impact of the upper mass tore the floor truss free of the core and exterior columns, adding it to the mass crashing down onto the next lowest floor. As the debris fell it increased in mass and accelerated due to gravity, meaning each consecutive floor had more force impacting it than the floor above it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Given then, the sequence of events that led to the collapse, it is obvious why WTC2 collapsed first. It suffered greater structural damage in the aircraft impact. The crucial floor trusses had only half as much fireproofing against the fires. And finally, WTC2 had a significantly larger mass bearing down on the already over-loaded crippled columns in the impact zone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As previously mentioned, Conspiracy Theorists often compare the fires in the WTC towers to other high-rise fires, in an effort to demonstrate that the fires in the towers were minor, and should not have resulted in collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Despite claiming in his essay that “several” high-rise buildings have suffered more severe longer-lasting fires without collapsing, in his book &lt;i&gt;Omissions and Distortions&lt;/i&gt; Dr Griffin only provides one example:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; One problem is that fire has never before caused steel-frame high-rise buildings to collapse, even when the fire was a very energetic, all-consuming one, such as the 1991 fire at One Meridian Plaza in Philadelphia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Griffin, D.R.; &lt;u&gt;The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions&lt;/u&gt;, pg.25  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;The United States Fire Administration’s official report into the fire at One Meridian Plaza is available online:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-049.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pd...ons/tr-049.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first important factor to consider is one of scale, as it is Dr Griffin’s assertion that by comparison the fires in the WTC1 were small.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to the USFA report:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; One Meridian Plaza has three underground levels, 36 above ground occupiable floors, two mechanical floors (12 and 38), and two rooftop helipads. The building is rectangular in shape, approximately 243 feet in length by 92 feet in width (approximately 22,400 gross square feet), with roughly 17,000 net usable square feet per floor. (pg.5) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;In comparison, NIST NCSTAR1 tells us that the World Trade Center towers each had 110 floors, of square dimensions 63m by 63m, with a rectangular core of dimensions 26m by 41m.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Each floor of the WTC was almost twice the size of a floor of One Meridian Plaza. According to the USFA report the fire spread through 8 floors. The aircraft impact area alone for WTC1 and WTC2 were both larger than the entire area affected by fire in One Meridian Plaza. At the very least, the fires in each of the towers was significantly larger than the fires in One Meridian Plaza.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One Meridian Plaza did not collapse. Before determining whether this suggests the towers should not have collapsed, it is important to consider the specific details of each incident. Firstly, and most obviously, One Meridian Plaza was not hit by a jet airliner travelling at high speed. It did not suffer any structural damage at all prior to the fires starting. Secondly, while the fires in the WTC were started in large areas of multiple floors simultaneously by jet fuel, the fire in One Meridian Plaza:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   started in a vacant 22nd floor office in a pile of linseed oil-soaked rags left by a contractor. (pg.2)  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;Also of important consideration is the design of the buildings – as we know the structural design of the twin towers contributed significantly to their collapse. The report for One Meridian Plaza tells us:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The building frame is structural steel with concrete floors poured over metal decks. All structural steel and floor assemblies were protected with spray-on fireproofing material. The exterior of the building was covered by granite curtain wall panels with glass windows attached to the perimeter floor girders and spandrels.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The building utilizes a central core design, although one side of the core is adjacent to the south exterior wall. The core area is approximately 38 feet wide by 124 feet long and contains two stairways, four banks of elevators, two HVAC supply duct shafts, bathroom utility chases, and telephone and electrical risers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The building has three enclosed stairways of concrete masonry construction. Each stairway services all 38 floors. The locations of the two stairways within the building core shift horizontally three or four times between the ground and the 38th floor to accommodate elevator shafts and machine rooms for the four elevator banks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The elevator shafts are constructed of concrete and masonry and extend from the first floor or lower levels to the highest floor served by the individual elevator banks. (pg. 5-6) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;A significant difference is the presence of concrete and masonry in the building. Concrete and masonry are both far more resistant to fire than steel. Another major difference is revealed in the photographs in the appendix of the USFA report. While the columns for the twin towers were located solely in the core and around the perimeter, One Meridian Plaza had a more conventional design with evenly spaced columns throughout the floor area. This is of significance as it was failure of the exterior columns in the towers that initiated the collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A summary of the timeline for the One Meridian Plaza fire reveals that though it burned for a long time, it did not ever reach the level of intesity Dr Griffin claims.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   February 23, 1991&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;2023 &lt;/b&gt;- smoke detector activated on 22nd floor&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;2027 (+4 mins)&lt;/b&gt; - Philadelphia Fire Department dispatches first alarm.  On arrival they report fire visible in one window, and heavy smoke.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- A Staging Area is established on the 20th floor, and a Tactical Command Post on the 21st floor. An attack team begins fire fighting on the 22nd floor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;2030 – 2130 (+1 hr)&lt;/b&gt; -The fire spreads to the 23rd and 24th floors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;February 24&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;0215 (+6 hrs) &lt;/b&gt;- The fire has spread to the 25th floor and extending to the 26th.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;0700 (+11 hrs) &lt;/b&gt;- A decision is made to evacuate the building after structural damage and consultation with a structural engineer led to the belief that there was a possibility of pancake collapse in the damaged floors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-At this point the fire was under control on floor 22 to 24 and burning on floors 25 and 26, and continuing to spread upwards.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;1500 approx (+19hrs) &lt;/b&gt;- The fire reaches the 30th floor and activates 10 sprinkler heads which put the fire out.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;As the timeline suggests, and the report reveals, although the fire burned across a total of eight floors, at no time was it burning on all eight at once, and indeed, at its worst extent it spread across five floors, but took eight hours to do so.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In contrast, on 9/11 intense fires were raging on multiple much larger floors within minutes of the fires starting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A final question to ask is what damage the fire actually did to One Meridian Plaza. Photos at the end of the report reveal a striking feature. The floor trusses in the affected floors sagged between columns – up to three feet in places. Unlike the WTC light-weight trusses, the photographs reveal the floors in One Meridian Plaza were supported by heavy steel beams. Yet despite this, they still sagged considerably.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It was the sagging of floor trusses in the towers that caused the collapse of those buildings, due to the unique design which placed all of the supporting columns on the perimeter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As previously discussed, another building fire often cited by Conspiracy Theorists is the February 12, 2005 fire in the Windsor Tower in Madrid, Spain. I have previously demonstrated that the building had a very different design to the WTC – having a concrete core – and that the steel components of the building did suffer collapse. But what about the size of the fires?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conspiracy Theorists will often cite photographs such as &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/madrid_windsor.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt; to demonstrate how intense fires were in the building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However, like with One Meridian Plaza, the photographs are deceptive due to scale.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We can find out crucial information about the size of the building &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Tower" target="_blank"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Windsor Tower had 32 stories, of which 29 were above ground. It stood 106 meters high, and had a total floor area of 20,000m&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Assuming that the fire burned through the entire area of all 32 floors, the total floor area thus engulfed in fire was 20,000m&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We can calculate an estimate of total volume of the fire affected area by calculating an average height per floor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;106m high divided by 29 above ground floors equals an average of 3.65m per floor. Allowing the same average height for each of the below-ground floors, this gives us a total fire volume of area x height = 20,000 x 3.65 = 73,000m&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The diagram on page 18 of NIST NCSTAR1-1 tells us that the five aircraft impact stories of WTC1 were also each 3.65m high, and that six of the aircraft impact stories in WTC2 were 3.6m high. The 78th floor of WTC2 was 4.26m high.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Each floor of the WTC was approximately 3,900m&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;.  Thus we can determine the total volume of the aircraft impact area in each tower.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC1 = (3,900 x 5) x 3.65 = 71,175m&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WTC2 = (3,900 x 6) x 3.65 + (3,900 x 4.26) = 102,024m&lt;sup&gt;3&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As we can see, the total impact area alone of WTC1 is almost as large as the entire volume of the Windsor Tower, and the impact area alone of WTC2 is considerably larger than the entire volume of the Windsor Tower. Just as with One Meridian Plaza, although the fires may seem comparably large, or even bigger, this perception is a result of the fires occurring in a building the fraction of the size of the towers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin’s allegation regarding WTC7 contains the inherent claim that WTC7 collapsed. However components of this claim are that the building was not hit by an aircraft, and did not suffer significant fires.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is also an &lt;i&gt;implied&lt;/i&gt; claim in his allegation, which is that WTC7 should not have collapsed at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;NIST have not completed their investigation into the collapse of WTC7.  However in June 2004 they released NIST-SP 1000-5 – &lt;i&gt;Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This included Appendix L – Interim Report on WTC7.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_.../appendixl.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This Interim Report provides information on damage suffered by WTC7 due to the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 and the extent of fires, both based on eye witness testimony. These are covered from page L-17 to L-26. They suggest significant structural damage and extensive fires.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other independent investigations have uncovered similar information. Mark Roberts, a New York City tour guide and amateur 9/11 Conspiracy Theory “debunker”, has written an extensive paper specifically on WTC7.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;World Trade Center Building 7 and the Lies of the “9/11 Truth Movement”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/introduction" target="_blank"&gt;Online Version&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;PDF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This paper has collated together extensive eye witness testimonies as to the condition of WTC7 prior to its collapse, including the state of:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;a href="http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires" target="_blank"&gt;The fires:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Lieutenant Robert LaRocca&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All morning I was watching 7 World Trade burn, which we couldn't do anything about because it was so much chaos looking for missing members.&lt;br /&gt;–Firefighter Marcel Klaes&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty-seven stories.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then we had to move because the Duane Reade, they said, wasn't safe because building 7 was really roaring.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Chief Medical Officer Kerry Kelly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At this point Seven World Trade was going heavy, and they weren't letting anybody get too close. Everybody was expecting that to come down.&lt;br /&gt;–Firefighter Vincent Massa&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Building #7 was still actively burning and at that time we were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable. –PAPD P.O. Edward McQuade &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;a href="http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/accountsofwtc7damage" target="_blank"&gt;Structural Damage:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The major concern at that time was number Seven, building number Seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Chief Frank Fellini&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. At that time, other firefighters started showing up, Deputy Battalion Chief Paul Ferran of the 41 Battalion, and James Savastano of the First Division assigned to the Second Battalion showed up and we attempted to search and extinguish, at the time which was small pockets of fire in 7 World Trade Center. We were unaware of the damage in the front of 7, because we were entering from the northeast entrance. We weren't aware of the magnitude of the damage in the front of the building.&lt;br /&gt;– FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;[Shortly after the tower collapses] I don’t know how long this was going on, but I remember standing there looking over at building 7 and realizing that a big chunk of the lower floors had been taken out on the Vesey Street side. I looked up at the building and I saw smoke in it, but I really didn't see any fire at that time.&lt;br /&gt;–Chief Nick Visconti&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few minutes after that a police officer came up to me and told me that the façade in front of Seven World Trade Center was gone and they thought there was an imminent collapse of Seven World Trade Center.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Lieutenant William Melarango&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think they said they had seven to ten floors that were freestanding and they weren't going to send anyone in.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Chief Thomas McCarthy  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;a href="http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/eyewitnessaccountsofthewithdrawalfromwtc" target="_blank"&gt;And the FDNY’s decision to evacuate the area:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;They backed me off the rig because Seven was in dead jeopardy, so they backed everybody off and moved us to the rear end of Vesey Street. We just stood there for a half hour, 40 minutes, because Seven was in imminent collapse and finally did come down.&lt;br /&gt;–Firefighter Thomas Smith  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chief Nigro directed me to continue monitoring conditions at the site. Specifically to monitor number 7 World Trade Center. We were very concerned with the collapse potential there, and to do whatever I could do to ensure site safety in that no additional people became injured.&lt;br /&gt;–FDNY Deputy Chief Harold Meyers&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex.&lt;br /&gt;–Chief Frank Fellini&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We made searches. We attempted to put some of the fire out, but we had a pressure problem. I forget the name of the Deputy. Some Deputy arrived at the scene and thought that the building was too dangerous to continue with operations, so we evacuated number 7 World Trade Center.&lt;br /&gt;–Captain Anthony Varriale&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I remember him screaming about number 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse, they don't know when, but it's definitely going to come down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an order, you know, stuff like that.&lt;br /&gt;–Firefighter Edward Kennedy  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If these eye witness testimonies are accurate, WTC7 suffered greater structural damage, relative to its overall size, than either of the two towers. If these eye witness testimonies, from dozens and dozens of firemen are accurate, WTC7, at 174m tall, 47 stories and 174,000m^2 of rentable office space, suffered the most extensive high-rise fire in history. Unlike other smaller high-rise fires I have previously mentioned in this paper such as One Meridian Plaza and the Windsor Tower, the fires in WTC7 raged without any fire-fighting operations conducted against it for seven hours.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The full scale of the fires in WTC7 can perhaps best be illustrated by a photograph taken by Aman Zafar. This photograph of Manhattan was taken some time after both WTC1 and WTC2 collapsed. The thick column of smoke pouring into the sky is from the fires burning unchecked in WTC7.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-109_1_small.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-109_1_small.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Videos such as the beginning of this one capture the enormous volume of smoke coming from WTC7.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Afb7eUHr64U"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Afb7eUHr64U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The fires in WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 on September 11, 2001 were not, as Dr Griffin and other Conspiracy Theorists claim, small, cool, or localised. They were, in fact, the worst high-rise fires in history.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All three buildings suffered crippling structural damage prior to the fires starting. The South Tower collapsed much sooner than the North Tower because it suffered substantially more structural damage from the aircraft impact, and because the devastated structural columns were bearing over twice as much structural mass.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inherent claim that the fires in the Twin Towers were not very big, very hot, or very long-lasting compared with fires in several steel-frame buildings that did not collapse is rejected.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inherent claim that the South Tower should not have collapsed first is rejected.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inherent claim that WTC 7 (which was not hit by an airplane and which had only small, localized fires) also collapsed is partially rejected. WTC7 did collapse, it was not hit by an aircraft, however, the fires were not small or localized.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The implied claim that WTC7 should not have collapsed is rejected.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-3724628188080069765?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/3724628188080069765'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/3724628188080069765'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/06/lies-six-seven-and-eight.html' title='Lies Six, Seven, and Eight'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-8414143440488587220</id><published>2007-05-28T03:51:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-05-28T03:52:26.253-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Fifth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   5.The omission of the fact that fire has never, before or after 9/11, caused steel-frame buildings to collapse (25).  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Report makes no mention of other building collapses due to fire, either before or after 9/11. Nor does it mention that the collapse of the Twin Towers was unique.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The claim inherent in the allegation is that fire has never, before or after 9/11, caused steel-frame buildings to collapse.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Like the previous claim, this one is easily investigated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; More than a quarter of a million dollars worth of hay has gone up in smoke after an arson attack in the Manawatu. The fire near Feilding thwarted the best efforts of firefighters and left one man's livelihood in ruins.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The fire on Reid Line West started at just after 2am on Sunday. At its peak, four fire appliances played a part in attempts to douse the flames. The river was pumped dry trying to deal with it. Two army water tankers from Linton were brought in to help as well as another tanker from Palmerston North. Feilding station officer Glenn Davies says the flames melted the steel shed causing it to collapse onto the bales, limiting the access for firefighters.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1003791" target="_blank"&gt;TVNZ&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr Griffin probably didn’t have a $60,000 steel-framed hay barn in mind when he made his statement, but it illustrates an important point about this particular common Conspiracy Theory argument. The reality is steel buildings have and do collapse due to fire, and steel buildings are vulnerable to collapse from fire. This is why building codes in all western countries require that steel structural elements are either encased in concrete or coated in fireproofing material.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Conspiracy theorists will often rephrase their claim from “steel building” to “steel high rise” to “steel skyscraper”, evolving to the extreme of “steel skyscraper in North America over 100 stories” or similar.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Using the same flawed logic, one could counter this argument by pointing out that every steel-framed skyscraper that has been intentionally rammed by a Boeing 767 airliner at high speed has suffered a global collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Both the design of the Twin Towers and the events that happened on 9/11 were unique in world history. Comparing these events to other dissimilar events is misleading and dishonest.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Before looking further into other high-rise fires, it is important to understand the specific events that occurred on 9/11. The collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 was studied by a government agency called the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The study required a high degree of specialists expertise and involved extensive photo analysis, engineering testing, fire testing, and structural modelling. A study of the collapses was far outside the mandate and expertise of the 9/11 Commission.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm" target="_blank"&gt;NIST Report&lt;/a&gt; on the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2 is enormous – totally about 10,000 pages when all of the technical supporting documents are included. All of their papers, including draft reports, can be accessed from their website.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important to take note, for this and later claims made by Dr Griffin, that the 9/11 Commission Report was released over a year before NIST released their final report on the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2. NIST’s study into the collapse of WTC7 is ongoing, with a final report expected to be released in 2007.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first important aspect to investigate is NIST’s explanation for the cause of the collapse. The NIST Report is a large and complex document to study, however they have also provided a more accessible series of &lt;a href="http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm" target="_blank"&gt;frequently asked questions&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When considering Dr Griffin’s claim, it is important to note the key aspects of the collapse – impact causing structural damage and dislodging fireproofing, jet fuel dispersed over multiple floors, sagging floor trusses, and inward-bowing perimeter columns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All of these are factors specific to the aircraft impact event and the unique design of the towers. In looking at other examples of skyscraper fires, it is important to ask if these same characteristics were present. The answer, in all cases, is no.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In regard to performance of multi-story steel-framed structures in fires, it is worth investigating the worst industrial fire in history. On May 10, 1993 a small fire at the Kader Industrial (Thailand) Co. Ltd. Factory spread rapidly to engulf three four storey buildings, claiming the lives of 188 workers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This fire is a stark demonstration of how steel structural elements perform when not protected from exposure to fire.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The fire spread rapidly throughout Building One, and the upper floors soon became untenable. The blaze blocked the stairwell at the south end of the building, so most of the workers rushed to the north stairwell. This meant that approximately 1,100 people were trying to leave the third and fourth floors through a single stairwell.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first fire apparatus arrived at 4:40 p.m., their response time having been extended because of the relatively remote location of the facility and the gridlock conditions typical of Bangkok traffic. Arriving fire-fighters found Building One heavily involved in flames and already beginning to collapse, with people jumping from the third and fourth floors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Despite the fire-fighters' efforts, Building One collapsed completely at approximately 5:14 p.m. Fanned by strong winds blowing toward the north, the blaze spread quickly into Buildings Two and Three before the fire brigade could effectively defend them. Building Two reportedly collapsed at 5:30 p.m., and Building Three at 6:05 p.m.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.ilo.org/encyclopedia/?doc&amp;nd=857100058&amp;amp;nh=0&amp;ssect=0" target="_blank"&gt;Case Study: The Kader Toy Factory fire&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;This isn’t the only example of steel structures failing due to fire, even without the addition of a 767 impact.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On January 16, 1967 a fire started in the McCormick Place exhibition hall in Chicago.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The fire spread was very rapid due to the lack of compartmentalization, the large amount of fuel, and lack of means of suppression. The unprotected steel roof trusses failed early on in the fire due to the same factors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;January 28, 1997 and another fire in another steel building:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; On the morning of January 28, 1997, in the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania township of Strasburg, a fire caused the collapse of the state-of-the-art, seven year old Sight and Sound Theater and resulted in structural damage to most of the connecting buildings. The theater was a total loss, valued at over $15 million.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Conspiracy Theorists ignore these events, preferring to highlight other incidents. The most common incident cited by Conspiracy Theorists is the Windsor Tower fire which gutted the 32 storey building in Madrid, Spain on February 12, 2005. Although the building was internally destroyed by the fires it remained standing until it was manually torn down.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most obviously, the Windsor Tower was not hit by a 767, and in fact did not suffer any structural damage prior to the fire starting. None of its fireproofing material was stripped off, and the fires started on one floor before spreading, rather than being started on multiple floors simultaneously as a result of spilled jet fuel.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The differences do not end there. Dr Griffin’s primary contention is that fire has not caused steel-framed buildings to collapse. However the Windsor Tower was not a steel framed building.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The building totalled 32 storeys, with 29 floors above ground and three below. A concrete core and concrete frame supported the first 16 floors. Above that was a central support system of concrete columns, supporting concrete floors with steel perimeter columns. An additional feature was the presence of two 'technical floors' - concrete floors designed to give the building more strength. One was just above the ground level and the other at the 17th floor. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Furthermore, Dr Griffin’s assertion would suggest that the elements of the Windsor Tower that were steel would not have collapsed. Not true.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The steel columns above the 17th floor suffered complete collapse, partially coming to rest on the upper technical floor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.concretecentre.com/main.asp?page=1095" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The reality – that fire causes steel structures to collapse, is illustrated clearly by post-fire photos of the Windsor Tower such as &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/madrid_remains.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;   The inherent claim that fire has never, before or after 9/11, caused steel-frame buildings to collapse is rejected.&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-8414143440488587220?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/8414143440488587220'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/8414143440488587220'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/05/fifth-lie.html' title='Fifth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-1843460036162600157</id><published>2007-05-28T03:49:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-05-28T03:50:42.782-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Fourth lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;4. The omission of the fact that the publicly released flight manifests contain no Arab names (23).&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;/div&gt;  &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;As previously stated, the 9/11 Report identifies nineteen hijackers and allocates them to the four flights hijacked on 9/11. The report does not make any specific reference to the Flight Manifests.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The claim inherent in the allegation is that the publicly released flight manifests contain no Arab names.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is perhaps one of the most straight forward claims to investigate. Put simply, the flight manifests remain the property of their respective airlines, and none of the four flight manifests have ever publicly been released by the airlines.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although this alone is enough to reject the inherent claim, to fully investigate the claim it is necessary to understand why Dr Griffin makes this allegation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On March 30, 2006 David Ray Griffin gave a lecture entitled &lt;a href="http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Myth-Reality-Griffin30mar06.htm" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Myth And The Reality&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; at Grand Lake Theatre in Oakland, California.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Another problem in the official account is that, although we are told that four or five of the alleged hijackers were on each of the four flights, no proof of this claim has been provided. The story, of course, is that they did not force their way onto the planes but were regular, ticketed passengers. If so, their names should be on the flight manifests. But the flight manifests that have been released contain neither the names of the alleged hijackers nor any other Arab names.&lt;sup&gt;29&lt;/sup&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The footnote for this remark leads us to the following web addresses:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html" target="_blank"&gt;www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/UA175.victims.html" target="_blank"&gt;www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/UA175.victims.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html" target="_blank"&gt;www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/UA93.victims.html" target="_blank"&gt;www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/UA93.victims.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There’s a clue in the web address itself – these are lists of victims, not passenger manifests.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Furthermore, the &lt;a href="http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/main.html" target="_blank"&gt;portal to the victim list pages&lt;/a&gt; (which also include a page for the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon) states:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon near Washington, D.C., and the crash of United Airlines flight 93, officials across the country are working to piece together lists of victims.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While the official number of those missing and dead will inevitably rise over the next few weeks, authorities from American Airlines, United Airlines, the Department of Defense, the New York City Medical Examiners Office and the New York City Fire Department, have released partial lists. They are linked below. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;A closer inspection reveals that these lists not only exclude the hijackers (who for obvious reasons are not considered victims) but are indeed partial lists, and do not include all of the passengers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;AA77’s victim list only names 50 of the 53 passengers (excluding hijackers) onboard.&lt;br /&gt;UA175’s list only names 47 of 51 passengers (excluding hijackers).&lt;br /&gt;UA93’s list only names 26 of 33 passengers (excluding hijackers).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On July 31, 2006 the United States District Court Eastern District of Virginia took the unprecedented action of publishing &lt;a href="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/" target="_blank"&gt;all of the trial exhibits&lt;/a&gt; from &lt;i&gt;United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui&lt;/i&gt; online at their website.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; The following web pages link to all 1,202 exhibits admitted into evidence during the trial of U.S. v. Moussaoui, with the exception of seven that are classified or otherwise remain under seal. This is the first criminal case for which a federal court has provided access to all exhibits online. The exhibits were posted on July 31, 2006. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Amongst them was &lt;a href="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00010.html" target="_blank"&gt;Prosecution Trial Exhibit OG00010 – Presentation for Special Agent Jim Fitzgerald&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The exhibit is a flash animation constructed from the flight manifests which identifies the names and seat numbers of all of the crew and passengers on each of the flights hijacked on 9/11.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A .zip file can be downloaded from the site, or alternatively the animation can be watched at &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/official_manifests.html" target="_blank"&gt;911myths.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alternatively &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/official_manifest_images.html" target="_blank"&gt;this page&lt;/a&gt; has still images produced from the flash animation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The names and seat numbers of all nineteen hijackers are identified in this court exhibit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is clear to see that Dr Griffin’s assertion simply is not true, and his misrepresentation of the CNN lists is an example of the level of dishonesty Conspiracy Theorists will resort to in order to reinforce their theories.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For a more in depth look at the flight manifest claim, I recommend the excellent summary at &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/no_hijackers_on_the_manifests.html" target="_blank"&gt;911myths.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;   The inherent claim that the publicly released flight manifests contain no Arab names is rejected.&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-1843460036162600157?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/1843460036162600157'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/1843460036162600157'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/05/fourth-lie.html' title='Fourth lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-3718596721788086988</id><published>2007-05-27T16:55:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-05-28T03:49:09.490-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Third lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt; 3. The obfuscation of the evidence that Hani Hanjour was too poor a pilot to have flown an airliner into the Pentagon (21-22).&lt;/b&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;   The Report addresses the four hijacker pilots’ training in Chapter 7: &lt;i&gt;The Attack Looms&lt;/i&gt; from page 223 to 231.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regarding Hani Hanjour it mentions:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In 1996, Hanjour returned to the United States to pursue flight training, after being rejected by a Saudi flight school. He checked out flight schools in Florida, California, and Arizona; and he briefly started at a couple of them before returning to Saudi Arabia. In 1997, he returned to Florida and then, along with two friends, went back to Arizona and began his flight training there in earnest. After about three months, Hanjour was able to obtain his private pilot’s license. Several more months of training yielded him a commercial pilot certificate, issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in April 1999. (p225-226) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The Report further states:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Settling in Mesa [Arizona], Hanjour began refresher training at his old school, Arizona Aviation. He wanted to train on multi-engine planes, but had difficulties because his English was not good enough. The instructor advised him to discontinue but Hanjour said he could not go home without completing the training. In early 2001, he started training on a Boeing 737 simulator at Pan Am International Flight Academy in Mesa. An instructor there found his work well below standard and discouraged him from continuing. Again Hanjour persevered; he completed the initial training by the end of March 2001. (p.226-227) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;At no point does the Report suggest that Hani Hanjour lacked the necessary skills to pilot AA77 into the Pentagon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The claim inherent in the allegation is that Hani Hanjour was too poor a pilot to have flown an airliner into the Pentagon.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This particular claim first emerged shortly after 9/11, during an ABC News interview with air traffic controller Danielle O’Brien. O’Brien was a controller at the Dulles Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON) Centre on September 11, and was the first controller to locate AA77 after it vanished from Indianapolis Centre’s radar screens at 0854EDT.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;During the &lt;a href="http://www.flatplanet.net/truth911/oldsite/2020_011024_atc_feature.html" target="_blank"&gt;interview&lt;/a&gt; O’Brien comments on the way the radar contact was moving:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Conspiracy Theorists often use this quote as evidence that it was not AA77 that hit the Pentagon. However they are dishonest with their quoting, leaving out the important &lt;i&gt;“You don’t fly a 757 in that manner.  It’s unsafe.”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another common person cited is Marcel Bernard, the chief flight instructor at Freeway Airport in Bowie, Maryland. Hani Hanjour went to Freeway in August 2001 to rent a Cessna 172, however he showed such poor flying skills that they declined to rent him an aircraft.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Conspiracy Theory film &lt;i&gt;Loose Change&lt;/i&gt; has an interview with Bernard.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;BERNARD:&lt;/b&gt; Hello, my name is Marcel Bernard and I'm the chief flight instructor here at Freeway. Hani Hanjour, well basically what happened with him is... he showed at the airport and wanted to get checked out in the aircraft you see, he was already certified, he didn't come to us for flight training. Yeah, he already had a pilot's license. He already earned a - it was private, instrument, commercial at a school in Arizona - I don't remember the name of the school. He already had certificates in hand and we sometimes occasionally have pilots who come to us that don't want flight training, but just want to rent our aircraft.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;INTERVIEWER:&lt;/b&gt; Which is the case of Hani Hanjour?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;BERNARD:&lt;/b&gt; This was the case of Hani, he wanted to get "checked-out" as we call it to rent our aircraft. And our insurance requires that he flies with one of our instructors to be found competent to rent. And that was the process that he was going through. And consensus was, he was very quiet, average, or below average piloting skills, English was very poor, so, that's about the best description I can get, give you for his demeanor. At that time very uneventful from my perspective. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;In this interview Bernard is not asked if he thought Hanjour could not have hit the Pentagon – somewhat surprising given this is precisely what the filmmakers who interviewed him were proposing in their film &lt;i&gt;Loose Change&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Perhaps they did ask him, and didn’t like the answer.  In an interview with Newsday, &lt;a href="http://www.pentagonresearch.com/Newsday_com.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Bernard gives his opinion&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Certainly both the 9/11 Report and David Ray Griffin seem to be in agreement that Hani Hanjour was not an especially gifted pilot – indeed the 9/11 Report indicates that he barely managed to pass any of his certifications, and that his instructors universally considered him a very poor pilot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But Dr Griffin is claiming more than this. He is claiming that Hanjour’s skills were so poor he could not have flown AA77 into the Pentagon. Conspiracy Theorists will often make statements such as &lt;a href="http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/badpilots.html" target="_blank"&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; It is doubtful that the best trained fighter pilots could have executed the maneuver that supposedly crashed a 757 into the Pentagon. It required making a tight 320-degree turn while descending seven thousand feet, then leveling out so as to fly low enough over the highway just west of the Pentagon to knock down lamp posts. After crossing the highway the pilot had to take the plane to within inches of the ground so as to crash into the Pentagon at the first-floor level and at such a shallow angle that an engine penetrated three rings of the building, while managing to avoid touching the lawn. And he had to do all of this while flying over 400 mph. Quite a feat for a flight school flunky who had never sat in the cockpit of a jet! &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The heart of this matter, then, is not so much determining the level of skill Hani Hanjour had, but determining just how difficult the manoeuvre made by AA77 was.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The above quote makes a mistake that Conspiracy Theorists repeatedly fall for. The alleged precision of the aircraft’s flight relies on the assumption that it was the pilot’s intention to perform precisely as actually occurred. This is, of course, nonsensical. There is no reason to assume the hijackers had any intention other than to hit The Pentagon somewhere. The location of impact and movement of the aircraft prior to impact are not important objectives. Indeed, as we will see, various aspects of the aircraft flight suggest a lack of expertise by the pilot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The crucial stage of AA77’s approach is the final manoeuvre in which the aircraft descended from 8,500ft to ground level while making a wide circle south of the Pentagon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to the recovered &lt;a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Flight Data Recorder&lt;/a&gt; from AA77:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;At 0934EDT AA77 was approximately 10km west of the Pentagon, headed directly for it, at an altitude of 8,500ft. At 09:34:01 the FDR records the beginning of a manual flight control input to the right, banking the aircraft to starboard and beginning a slow turn. At this point the aircraft’s heading was 88.6&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; – almost directly east.  It was travelling at 339KT (ground speed) at the time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A full 198 seconds later, at 09:37:19EDT, AA77 levelled out at 2,200ft at a heading of about 60&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt;, and with a ground speed of 318KT.  It completed nearly an entire circle, making a circuit that covered 330&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt;. The circle of AA77’s flight was about 8km across. The manoeuvre was performed at a fairly constant speed around the 300KT mark, and the aircraft’s average rate of descent was about 1,900ft per minute.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In contrast, AA77’s FDR records that the flight’s initial climb out of Dulles International to 29,000ft was achieved in 13 minutes with an average rate of ascent of 2,200ft per minute.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Given that a high rate of descent is much easier than a high rate of ascent, due to the benefits of gravity, it is clear that the aircraft’s rate of descent in its final turn, while rapid, could not by any standard be considered “aerobatic”. The pilot typically maintained between 20&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; and 30&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; of bank angle, with a one to two second peak of 41&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt; of bank angle.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Certainly such a manoeuvre would not be comfortable for passengers, however given the ultimate fate of the flight, it can be assumed that whoever was at the aircraft’s controls was not concerned with passenger comfort.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Much more extreme manoeuvres can easily be performed in large airliners when passenger comfort is not a concern. For example these two videos below:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ra_khhzuFlE"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ra_khhzuFlE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Boeing 707 (an older larger airliner than the 757) test pilot Alvin “Tex” Johnson heralds the dawn of the Jet Passenger age by performing a barrel roll at Seafair, August 6, 1955 above a stunned crowd.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r9DSXVceQKM"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r9DSXVceQKM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A Boeing 757-200 (same model as AA77) of No.40 Squadron, Royal New Zealand Air Force performs a high speed (350KT) low level (100ft) pass followed by a 45 degree climbout to 7,500ft.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A critical component of airframe survivability while manoeuvring is how much &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;-force is applied.  During a turn, &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;-force is the force that pushes you to the outside of the circle, such as how you will tend to lean to one side as you make a sharp turn in a car. The tighter and faster the turn, the higher the &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;-forces.  1 &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt; is equal to the force of earth’s gravity.  So at 4 &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;s everything will feel four times as heavy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Aircraft designed for high-&lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt; manoeuvres such as fighter aircraft have to be made very strong, otherwise the forces acting on them can tear them apart.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;-forces applied to AA77 during its descending turn can be calculated fairly easily using a simple formula:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A = v&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; / r&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where r = the radius of the turn and v = velocity during the turn.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As previously stated, AA77’s turn was approximately 8km across, and the turn was completed at around 300KT. As the speed varied somewhat we will use a higher value of 350KT. A higher velocity will result in higher &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;-forces.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Converting to international units we get a velocity of 180ms&lt;sup&gt;-1&lt;/sup&gt; and a radius of 4,000m.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A = (180x180) / 4,000&lt;br /&gt;A = 8.1&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A represents the constant acceleration that the turning object experiences due to centripetal force.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acceleration due to gravity is 9.8ms&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;, thus we can determine that the average lateral &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;-forces experienced by AA77 during the descending turn were 0.82 &lt;i&gt;g&lt;/i&gt;s.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In comparison, on January 22nd, 2002 Icelandair Flight 315 (a Boeing 757-208) was involved in a serious incident during approach to Oslo airport Gardermoen. During a go-around due to an unstable initial approach, the aircraft entered an extreme manoeuvre which exceeded the aircraft’s maximum g-limits. Although passengers were alarmed, the aircraft landed safely.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to the report into the incident:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At this time the First Officer called out “PULL UP!” - “PULL UP!”. The GPWS aural warnings of “TERRAIN” and then “TOO LOW TERRAIN” were activated. Both pilots were active at the control columns and a maximum “up” input was made. A split between left and right elevator was indicated at this time. It appears the split occurred due to both pilots being active at the controls. The pilots did not register the aural warnings. During the dive the airspeed increased to 251 kt and the lowest altitude in the recovery was 321 ft radio altitude with a peaked load factor of +3.59 g’s.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/pentagon/analysis/theories/aaib_757incident.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The final part of AA77’s approach is often described, as we saw above;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; leveling out so as to fly low enough over the highway just west of the Pentagon to knock down lamp posts. After crossing the highway the pilot had to take the plane to within inches of the ground so as to crash into the Pentagon at the first-floor level &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;There’s a number of problems with these sorts of summaries, however. As we know from AA77’s FDR, the aircraft did not level out of its descent near to the ground, but at 2,200ft. At this point AA77 was 7.5km from the Pentagon. According to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)’s &lt;a href="http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;AA77 Flight Path Report&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At the end of the turn, the aircraft was at about 2000 feet altitude and 4 miles southwest of the Pentagon. Over the next 30 seconds, power was increased to near maximum and the nose was pitched down in response to control column movements. The airplane accelerated to approximately 460 knots (530 miles per hour) at impact with the Pentagon. The time of impact was 9:37:45 AM. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; This produces a rough average descent rate of 1m for every 11m of horizontal distance covered in the final approach to the Pentagon. Or to put it another way, the aircraft descended at a rate of 22m for every second. Although this descent rate would not have been constant, it’s very clear that the aircraft did not spend any significant period of time “within inches of the ground”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most people would expect an inexperienced pilot to crash an airliner within moments of coming so close to the ground. On 9/11 this is precisely what happened.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Moreover, on its final seconds of approach AA77 struck multiple tall highway lamp posts and a large generator; further evidence of poor flying on behalf of the pilot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some have asserted that the low approach of AA77 was in fact aerodynamically impossible, due to something called “ground effect”. One such person is Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and qualified pilot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Flying-Without-Training13jun06.htm" target="_blank"&gt;He wrote a paper&lt;/a&gt; refuting the notion that the poorly trained hijackers could have pulled off the September 11 Attacks. He mentions in the paper:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; I shan't get into the aerodynamic impossibility of flying a large commercial jetliner 20 feet above the ground at over 400 MPH. A discussion on ground effect energy, tip vortex compression, downwash sheet reaction, wake turbulence, and jetblast effects are beyond the scope of this article (the 100,000-lb jetblast alone would have blown whole semi-trucks off the roads.) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Sagadevan’s paper is full of factual errors, far too many to delve into here (for example he claims those killed at the Pentagon were construction workers doing renovations, however renovations for that section had been completed, the offices were fully staffed, and a high proportion of those killed and injured by the impact were military personnel, as indicated by their rank). However a number of other aviation experts have stated that the attacks were well within the capabilities of the 9/11 hijackers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; "They'd done their homework and they had what they needed," says a United Airlines pilot (name withheld on request), who has flown every model of Boeing from the 737 up. "Rudimentary knowledge and fearlessness."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"As everyone saw, their flying was sloppy and aggressive," says Michael (last name withheld), a pilot with several thousand hours in 757s and 767s. "Their skills and experience, or lack thereof, just weren't relevant."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"The hijackers required only the shallow understanding of the aircraft," agrees Ken Hertz, an airline pilot rated on the 757/767. "In much the same way that a person needn't be an experienced physician in order to perform CPR or set a broken bone."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That sentiment is echoed by Joe d'Eon, airline pilot and host of the "Fly With Me" podcast series. "It's the difference between a doctor and a butcher," says d'Eon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/05/19/askthepilot186/" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In my opinion the official version of the fact is absolutely plausible, does not require exceptional circumstances, bending of any law of physics or superhuman capabilities. Like other (real pilots) have said, the manoeuvres required of the hijackers were within their (very limited) capabilities, they were performed without any degree of finesse and resulted in damage to the targets only after desperate overmanoeuvring of the planes. The hijackers took advantage of anything that might make their job easier, and decided not to rely on their low piloting skills. It is misleading to make people believe that the hijackers HAD to possess superior pilot skills to do what they did.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/Another_Expert.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Again: lift from "the ground effect" happens at low, not high, airspeeds and high, not low, angles of attack. At high speeds, flow across a wing tends toward laminar, and spanwise flow is functionally negligible. Ground effect mitigates lift loss when the ground breaks up wing tip vortices from turbulent and spanwise flow over a wing caused by high angle of attack, low speed flight regime.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/Ground_Effect.pdf" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The final word is perhaps best presented visually, in the form of an animation the NTSB produced depicting the final manoeuvres of AA77.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/q_ImVvPbP8E"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/q_ImVvPbP8E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The inter-titles and text have been added to the animation by Conspiracy Theorists. Note the unsteady movement of the aircraft, with constant control inputs, corrections, and over corrections. These are sure signs of poor flying ability.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additionally, a number of amateurs have made attempts to replicate AA77’s flight using highly accurate commercially available flight simulator software.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZPXGc7u6Z6Y"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZPXGc7u6Z6Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Px4bpFnemGY"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Px4bpFnemGY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The evidence strongly suggests that AA77’s final doomed flight was well within the capabilities of someone with only the most minimal flying capabilities, and well within the skill level of Hani Hanjour who just managed to scrape through an FAA Commercial Pilot’s License.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;   The inherent claim that Hani Hanjour was too poor a pilot to have flown an airliner into the Pentagon is rejected.&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-3718596721788086988?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/3718596721788086988'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/3718596721788086988'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/05/third-lie.html' title='Third lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-7149221934950995373</id><published>2007-05-27T16:36:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-05-28T03:38:51.336-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Second lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;b&gt;&lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; 2. The omission of evidence about Mohamed Atta — such as his reported fondness for alcohol, pork, and lap dances — that is in tension with the Commission's claim that he had become fanatically religious (20-21). &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The report states:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; When Atta arrived in Germany, he appeared religious, but not fanatically so. This would change, especially as his tendency to assert leadership became increasingly pronounced. (pg.160) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;However:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; After leaving Afghanistan, the hijackers made clear efforts to avoid appearing radical. Once back in Hamburg, they distanced themselves from conspicuous extremists like Zammar, whom they knew attracted unwanted attention from the authorities. They also changed their appearance and behaviour. Atta wore Western clothing, shaved his beard, and no longer attended extremist mosques. (pg.167) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The word “Atta” appears 293 times in the Commission Report, however there is no reference to a fondness for alcohol, pork, or lap dances.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The claim inherent in the allegation is that Mohamed Atta had a fondness for alcohol, pork, and lap dances.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This claim immediately poses a problem as it relies on Atta’s personal opinion. “Fondness” is entirely subjective and cannot be measured. However, for the moment I will consider the claim that Atta drank alcohol, ate pork, and received lap dances.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These claims originate from a single source – an interview with Amanda Keller – an American who claimed to be Mohammed Atta’s girlfriend in Florida. The interview was conducted by Mad Cow Productions researcher Daniel Hopsicker who alleges that Atta was running a heroin smuggling operation for Osama Bin Laden. The findings of Hopsicker’s research were published in his book Welcome To Terrorland, and this appears to be the only source for the claims made about Atta.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The interview can be watched &lt;a href="http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-7746174590105525480&amp;q=hopsicker"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It’s worth noting that Ms Keller makes no reference to pork or lap dances in this interview, and recounts that “Mohamed” frowned on her for drinking alcohol in public.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Similar general claims of drinking and un-Muslim-like behaviour were made about the hijackers.  Some examples include:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/06/wbin106.xml" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Telegraph&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.madcowprod.com/issue09.html" target="_blank"&gt;Mad Cow Productions&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.freearabvoice.org/NabilaOnAttacks.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Free Arab Voice&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/bostonherald101001.html" target="_blank"&gt;The Boston Herald&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Before the validity of these claims is examined, it is important to determine their significance. Although the allegation contains the inherent claim that Mohamed Atta had a fondness for alcohol, pork, and lap dances, it also contains an &lt;i&gt;implied&lt;/i&gt; claim.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is that Mohamed was not in fact, a religious fanatic as the Commission Report claims, and therefore did not carry out the September 11 attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One of the flaws in this line of reasoning is that Religious Fanatics do not necessarily follow closely the religious teachings of their religion. The Qur’an states:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Whosoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and whosoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. (5:32) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Clearly Islamic Terrorists who indiscriminately kill hundreds of civilians are in direct violation of their religion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We have already seen from the Report that the hijackers made a conscious effort to blend in with other westerners – dressing smartly, shaving off their beards, and distancing themselves from other Islamic extremist groups.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Such “blending in” has been a standard aspect of covert military and intelligence operations for centuries. The Romans often employed spies, who would infiltrate the communities of their enemies and live amongst them, adapting their customs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This appears to be an idea that some Islamic Extremists have embraced:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Atta has been associated with a sect called Al Takfir wal Hijra, run by al Quaeda second-in-command Ayman Al-Zawahiri. This is an extreme fundamentalist sect, however...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"A major element of Takfir religious practice is subterfuge. The threat of Takfir is that its cold, heartless killers could easily be the boy or girl next door. Takfir Wal Hijra members are permitted to disregard the injunctions of Islamic law in order to blend into infidel societies.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In other words, Takfirs can have sex with loose women, drink alcohol, eat pork and do whatever else they feel is appropriate to advance their mission...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mohammed Atta, although puritanical in his behavior, was believed to be Takfiri. He's not the only al Qaeda operative you could point the finger at. Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed went to discos, drank alcohol and dated call girls. Yousef in particular is renowned for being generally unIslamic and non-observant of prayers and fasting. Although no one has suggested openly that Yousef and KSM were Takfiri, it's hardly a stretch".&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.rotten.com/library/history/terrorist-organizations/al-takfir-wal-hijra" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Other sources on paint a similar picture:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/takfir-wal-hijra" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.answers.com/topic/takfir-wal-hijra&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.norwalkadvocate.com/news/nationworld/sns-worldtrade-embassyplot-lat,0,3646484.story?page=1&amp;amp;coll=sns-newsnation-headlines" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.norwalkadvocate.com/news/...tion-headlines&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,182746,00.html" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...182746,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some sources of evidence suggest it wasn’t just this particular extremist sect whom followed these principles:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; ...In the mountain of documents left behind in al-Qaedas’ training camps in Afghanistan, one Yemeni, Khalid, wrote to his brother describing the people he had just joined:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am in a whirlpool of contradictions. You cannot trust anyone here. Imagine that I might have to hide the copy of the Koran you gave me for fear it might get stolen like my watch. They train us here on how to mix with the Christians and how to emulate their life style. We have to learn how to drink alcohol and to shave off our beards.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Al-Majallh issue no. 1188, 23 November 2002, p. 24&lt;br /&gt;cited page 20, Masterminds of Terror, Yousri Fouda and Nick Fielding  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;An Al Qaeda training manual recovered from the house of Nazih al Wadih Raghie by the Manchester Metropolitan Police on May 10, 2000 reflects the notion of “blending in”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; An Important Question: How can a Muslim spy live among enemies if he maintains his Islamic characteristics? How can he perform his duties to Allah and not want to appear Muslim?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Concerning the issue of clothing and appearance (appearance of true religion), Ibn Taimia - may Allah have mercy on him - said, "If a Muslim is in a combat or godless area, he is not obligated to have a different appearance from [those around him ].The [Muslim] man may prefer or even be obligated to look like them, provided his action brings a religious benefit of preaching to them, learning their secrets and informing Muslims, preventing their harm, or some other beneficial goal."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Resembling the polytheist in religious appearance is a kind of "necessity permits the forbidden” even though they [forbidden acts] are basically prohibited. As for the visible duties, like fasting and praying, he can fast by using any justification not to eat with them [polytheist]. As for prayer, the book (Al-Manhaj Al-Haraki Lissira Al-Nabawiya)quotes Al-Bakhari that "he [the Moslem ]may combine the noon and afternoon [prayers], sunset and evening [prayers]. That is based on the fact that the prophet -Allah bless and keep him -combined [prayers] in Madina without fear or hesitation." &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;However the document adds:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Though scholars have disagreed about the interpretation of that tradition, it is possible - though Allah knows best -that the Moslem spy combines [prayers ].It is noted, however, that it is forbidden to do the unlawful, such as drinking wine or fornicating. There is nothing that permits those.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Al Qaeda Manual&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.disastercenter.com/terror/Al_Qaeda_Manual_ELEVENTH_LESSON.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Eleventh Lesson: Espionage (1) Intelligence Gathering Using Open Methods&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other high profile Islamic Terrorist plots indicate blending in may be commonplace.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Such as this article about one of the Madrid Bombers:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Despite his reputation for fanaticism at the Madrid mosque he attended, Ahmidan also frequented discotheques and bars. He struck his Spanish neighbors as friendly and flashy. They remember him zooming by on a motorcycle with his long-haired girlfriend, a Spanish woman with a taste for revealing outfits&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.cannabis.net/articles/assass.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Even the Muslim world can find possible explanations for such behaviour.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;S. Abdallah Schleifer, the publisher and senior editor of TBS Journal (&lt;a href="http://www.tbsjournal.com/" target="_blank"&gt;www.tbsjournal.com&lt;/a&gt;), and al Jazeeras Yosri Fouda give their thoughts here:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;SAS:&lt;/b&gt; My own instinct is that just as they inhabited a psychic or psychological state that convinced them they were reliving the Prophet's experiences at the very moment they were about to violate both the very strict shari'a ("Islamic law") rules governing war and the Prophet's canonic sayings condemning the killing of civilians, so they must have assumed that the purifying nature of their approaching martyrdom gave them some sort of cosmic dispensation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;YF:&lt;/b&gt; Speaking of dispensation and states of mind, when I was in Karachi waiting to meet up with Ramzi and Khalid, my contact called me at the hotel I was staying at to arrange a meeting time. Since it was Friday I suggested we meet in the mosque either before or after the prayer and he said to me "No, no, no! Don't leave the hotel." And I said, "But it's Friday and there are the prayers," and he said, "No, no, no! God will forgive you." But I think their sense of dispensation was derived directly from the idea that they were engaged in jihad ("holy struggle"). Now you know, in jihad there are certain liberties allowed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;SAS:&lt;/b&gt; You mean like not having to pray in a congregational manner if that puts the believers in danger, or being allowed to say one's prayers on horseback if on guard or patrol and not having to dismount and pray, as one usually does, on the ground.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;YF:&lt;/b&gt; Right. Well, I believe they took the liberty of making their own interpretation of these dispensations or liberties granted to the one making jihad.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.tbsjournal.com/Archives/Fall02/Fouda.html" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It’s clearly not as simple as Dr Griffin presents it to be. Further investigation of the specific claims made about the hijackers suggests the argument may be weaker than it appears.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Soon after initial reports linking Amanda Keller and Atta, Ms Keller claimed that the man she had dated was another student at the flying school also called Mohamed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Keller said comments attributed to her in the Herald-Tribune on Saturday, saying that Atta lived in her apartment, were wrong. She said that it was this unidentified fifth man, also named Mohammed, that stayed in her home.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.madcowprod.com/fifthpilot.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Keller again changed her story for her December 2002 interview with Daniel Hopsicker, however after the interview she retracted her claims.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In September 2006 the Herald Tribune &lt;a href="http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/609100466/1007/BUSINESS" target="_blank"&gt;reported&lt;/a&gt; that the FBI had confirmed Amanda Keller had not known Atta.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; But the former Venice stripper now says her boyfriend was another flight student not connected to 9/11. And, for the first time, federal investigators say she's right.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"There's nothing there to corroborate the relationship between the two," a New York-based FBI counterterrorism agent said recently after reviewing 9/11 case files.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Among other things, the government checked Atta's phone records and found the two had never called each other.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Other accounts suggest discrepancies in Ms Keller’s testimony. She has stated that she only ever knew Mohamed by the name “Mohamed Arajaki” – even spelling out the name in the interview. Although the 9/11 hijackers often employed aliases, there is no evidence that Atta ever used the alias “Arajaki”, and the FBI did not list it as one of his aliases in any of their press statements.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other eye witness accounts of Ms Keller and her partner “Mohamed” further suggest it may not have been the leader of the 9/11 plot, for example Tony and Vonnie LaConca, the couple who owned the house rented by Keller and Mohamed. They were &lt;a href="http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/091401/tp4ch14.htm" target="_blank"&gt;interviewed by the Sun Herald&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; An FDLE agent working in conjunction with the FBI arrived at the LaConca home around 10:30 a.m. Thursday and questioned the couple for two hours concerning a man they knew only as "Mohamed."&lt;br /&gt;The couple told the agent the man was about 25, 5 feet 10 inches, 160 pounds, had "dark, perfect" skin, and was clean cut and "very polite."&lt;br /&gt;"He was a very handsome guy," Vonnie LaConca said in an interview. "He had beautiful, unblemished skin."  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;Is this Mohamed the 32 year old 5 foot 8 Atta? Perhaps not. The FDLE agent showed them photographs of four suspected hijackers;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; "The first photo they showed us was the pilot who crashed into the first building," Vonnie LaConca said. "It was not Mohamed or his friend. But the last picture they showed us was very close, but I could not say 100 percent that it was him." &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The article also suggests this Mohamed was training for his commercial pilot’s license in 2001 – weeks after Mohamed Atta acquired his, in December 2000.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And it appears this other Mohamed may actually exist, with evidence coming – oddly enough – from &lt;a href="http://www.madcowprod.com/05022005.html" target="_blank"&gt;Mad Cow Productions&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; A mysterious French-Arab man resurfaced last week who authorities had dubbed the ‘5th terrorist pilot’ and a ‘Second’ Mohamed in Venice, FL. In an email, he alleged that a number of eyewitnesses, including the girl who had lived with him, had all mistaken him... for Mohamed Atta.&lt;br /&gt;It was he they'd known in Venice, not the terrorist ringleader, he asserted. And he suggested the confusion might owe something to their common name, "Mohamed." &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;There’s certainly plenty of doubt that Mohamed Atta was the man Amanda Keller knew, which would undermine accusations that he in particular enjoyed drinking, pork, and lap dances.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But what about other articles? At the head of this section we saw numerous articles recounting three of the hijackers – including Atta – enjoying alcohol and lap dances at a strip club called the Pink Pony. But what does the original article, in &lt;a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/14/miami-club.htm" target="_blank"&gt;USA Today&lt;/a&gt;, say?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; MIAMI (AP) — The night before terrorists struck New York and Washington, three men spewed anti-American sentiments in a bar and talked of impending bloodshed, according to a strip club manager interviewed by the FBI. John Kap, manager of the Pink Pony and Red Eyed Jack's Sports Bar in Daytona Beach, said the men made the claims to a bartender and a patron. "They were talking about what a bad place America is. They said 'Wait 'til tomorrow. America is going to see bloodshed,"' Kap said. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;There’s a number of things to note in this version of events. First, the bar manager is recounting events that other people witnessed – a bartender and another patron. This is second hand information. Secondly, in this article the bar manager makes no mention of the three men being any of the nineteen hijackers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are other examples of the hijackers drinking as well, such as this story from &lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/14/whunt114.xml" target="_blank"&gt;The Telegraph&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Tony Amos, the manager of Shuckums Oyster Bar and Restaurant in Hollywood, just north of Miami, was interviewed by the FBI and he and his barman and a waitress all identified Atta and his cousin as some hard drinkers who propped up the bar last Friday.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Atta's bill for three hours of vodka drinking came to $48 (£33). When he drunkenly disputed the charge, Mr Amos intervened. "Of course I can pay the bill," Atta told him. "I'm an airline pilot." &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;That certainly supports the contention that Atta enjoyed alcohol, but it’s not the only version of events.  The &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&amp;node=&amp;amp;contentId=A28194-2001Sep13&amp;notFound=true" target="_blank"&gt;Washington Post&lt;/a&gt; recounted the story a little differently.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Last Friday night, Atta, Shehhi and an unidentified man spent 3 1/2 hours at a sports bar, Shuckums, in Hollywood, Fla. While Atta played video games, the other two had about five drinks each and appeared resistant to paying the $48 tab. The manager, Tony Amos, recalled yesterday that he inquired whether they could not afford the bill. Shehhi "looked at me with an arrogant look," Amos said. "He pulled out a wad of cash and put it on the bar table and said, 'There is no money issue. I am an airline pilot.' " &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;The story is a little different in this version, and Atta doesn’t appear to drink at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We know the Commission Report didn’t mention these activities by the hijackers, but Dr Griffin’s allegation is that these things really did happen, and that by not mentioning them the Commission were lying by omission. However on closer inspection, these stories don’t seem to have much weight behind them after all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;   The inherent claim that Mohamed Atta had a fondness for alcohol, pork and lap dances is rejected.&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-7149221934950995373?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/7149221934950995373'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/7149221934950995373'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/05/second-lie.html' title='Second lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2993674384871015869.post-270203874334162728</id><published>2007-05-27T15:57:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2007-05-27T16:34:05.342-07:00</updated><title type='text'>First lie</title><content type='html'>&lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt;1. The omission of evidence that at least six of the alleged hijackers — including Waleed al-Shehri, said by the Commission probably to have stabbed a flight attendant on Flight 11 before it crashed into the North Tower of the WTC — are still alive (19-20).&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;/div&gt;  &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Report claims that all of the nineteen alleged hijackers are dead, and died during the attacks. The first chapter of the Report &lt;i&gt;We Have Some Planes&lt;/i&gt; (pg.1-46) identifies the hijackers and allocates them amongst the four hijacked flights as follows:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;American Airlines Flight 11&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mohamed Atta&lt;br /&gt;Abdul Aziz al Omari&lt;br /&gt;Satam al Suqami&lt;br /&gt;Wail al Shehri&lt;br /&gt;Waleed al Shehri&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;United Airlines Flight 175&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Marwan al Shehhi&lt;br /&gt;Fayez Banihammad&lt;br /&gt;Mohand al Shehri&lt;br /&gt;Ahmed al Ghamdi&lt;br /&gt;Hamza al Ghamdi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;American Airlines Flight 77&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Khalid al Mihdhar&lt;br /&gt;Majed Moqed&lt;br /&gt;Hani Hanjour&lt;br /&gt;Nawaf al Hazmi&lt;br /&gt;Salem al Hazmi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;United Airlines Flight 93&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Saeed al Ghamdi&lt;br /&gt;Ahmed al Nami&lt;br /&gt;Ahmad al Haznawi&lt;br /&gt;Ziad Jarrah&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Report further claims:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At 8:46:40, American 11 crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. All on board, along with an unknown number of people in the tower, were killed instantly. (pg.7) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At 9:03:11, United Airlines Flight 175 struck the South Tower of the World Trade Center. All on board, along with an unknown number of people in the tower, were killed instantly. (pg.8) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, travelling at approximately 530 miles per hour. All on board, as well as many civilian and military personnel in the building, were killed. (pg.10) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; With the sounds of the passengers counterattack continuing, the aircraft [United 93] plowed into an empty field in Shankesville, Pennsylvania, at 580 miles per hour, about 20 minutes’ flying time from Washington, D.C.(pg.14) &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;For the purposes of this paper I have made the assumption that the Commission do not believe anyone on board United 93 survived the impact described above.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   The claim inherent in the allegations is that at least six of the alleged hijackers are still alive.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These claims originate in the days immediately after September 11, 2001 as the FBI began what would become the largest criminal investigation in the agency’s history.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On September 14th the FBI released a list with the names of nineteen middle-eastern men they believed were the hijackers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Source:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=BBUWQHBWM2RMRQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/09/15/whunt15.xml" target="_blank"&gt;The Telegraph&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/091401hj.htm" target="_blank"&gt;FBI Press Release&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These were:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;American Airlines Flight 11&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mohamed Atta&lt;br /&gt;Abdulaziz Alomari&lt;br /&gt;Waleed M Al Shehri&lt;br /&gt;Satam Al Suqami&lt;br /&gt;Wail Al Shehri&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;United Airlines Flight 175&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Marwan Al Shehhi&lt;br /&gt;Fayez Ahmed&lt;br /&gt;Mohald Al Shehri&lt;br /&gt;Hamza Alghamdi&lt;br /&gt;Ahmed Al Ghamdi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;American Airlines Flight 77&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Khalid Al-Midhar&lt;br /&gt;Majed Moqed&lt;br /&gt;Nawaq Alhamzi&lt;br /&gt;Salem Alhamzi&lt;br /&gt;Hani Hanjour&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;United Airlines Flight 93&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ahmed Alhaznawi&lt;br /&gt;Ahmed Alnami&lt;br /&gt;Ziad Jarrahi&lt;br /&gt;Saeed Alghamdi&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of the nineteen listed, five have slightly different names or spelling than those listed in the Report.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first media reports of alleged hijackers being alive appeared on 23rd September.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The BBC &lt;a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm" target="_blank"&gt;reported&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.&lt;br /&gt;The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The BBC identifies the following:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Waleed Al Shehri – A pilot from Saudi Arabia&lt;br /&gt;Abdulaziz Al Omari – An engineer from Saudi Arabia&lt;br /&gt;Abdulaziz Al Omari – A pilot from Saudi Arabia&lt;br /&gt;Saeed Alghamdi – Interviewed by London-based Arabic newspaper&lt;br /&gt;Khalid Al Midhar – May also be alive&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On 27th October 2006 the BBC &lt;a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html" target="_blank"&gt;issued a statement in their Editors blog&lt;/a&gt;, stating that the initial allegations in their 2001 article were a result of mistaken identity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A &lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml" target="_blank"&gt;Telegraph article&lt;/a&gt;, also of 23rd September 2001, cites four individuals who claim the hijackers stole their identities.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This article cites the Saudi engineer from the BBC article; Abdulaziz Al-Omari. It also cites Saeed Al-Ghamdi and indicates he is also a pilot from Saudi Arabia. The article further cites two other hijackers; Salem Al-Hamzi (worker at Yanbu Industrial City, Saudi Arabia) and Ahmed Al-Nami (administrator for Saudi Arabian Airlines, Saudi Arabia).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Momentarily ignoring variations of spelling, this gives a total of seven individuals claiming identity as six of the alleged hijackers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is important to note that these articles were written based on a preliminary name-only list of hijackers. An official list of the hijackers – with photographs – was released on 27th September.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On the 6th of February 2002 Saudi Arabia officially acknowledged that 15 of the 19 hijackers were their citizens, as &lt;a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/02/06/saudi.htm" target="_blank"&gt;reported by USA Today&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens, but said Wednesday that the oil-rich kingdom bears no responsibility for their actions. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eight of the nineteen hijackers have, at various times, been identified as being alive by the media. A detailed investigation of each individual claim follows.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/abdulaziz_al_omari_still_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Abdulaziz Al Omari&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This allegation arose from the BBC articled quoted previously. In this article the Al Omari cited is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms. He claimed his passport was lost whilst studying in Denver, USA. A second man with the same name is cited in the same BBC article. He claimed to be a pilot with Saudi Arabian Airlines.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Obviously, if two individuals are claiming to be the same hijacker, there has been confusion. Either one, or both of them are in error.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once photos were released of the hijackers it became obvious that Al Omari the engineer was an entirely different person to Al Omari the hijacker.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However that still left Al Omari the Saudi Airlines pilot. On 16th September 2001 CNN broadcast Al Omari the pilot’s photo, identifying him as the pilot of AA11. However, the FBI quickly determined that Mohamed Atta was the pilot of AA11, not Al Omari the hijacker.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The CNN have since apologised to Al Omari for this confusion, and conducted an interview with him. In the interview and from his September 16 photograph it is clear he is not the Al Omari presented in photographs issued by the FBI on 27th September.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So what about Al Omari the hijacker? According to Saudi Information Agency, Al Omari the hijacker was 23; much younger than either of the other Al Omaris. He studied religion at university, where he befriended a number of clerics. In December 2000 he left for Afghanistan where he trained in Kandahar and fought alongside the Taliban.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/ahmed_al-nami_still_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Ahmed Al-Nami&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This allegation arose from the Telegraph article, and identifies a 33yr old administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines based in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;However the profile for Al-Nami the hijacker is very different. Like Al Omari, he was young and also trained at a religious university. According to his friends and family, in 1999 he started to become highly religious, so much so that his family feared he had bipolar disorder. In December 2000 he left on a trip to Mecca. His family never saw him again, although they received a phone call from him in June 2001. It is believed that we went to Afghanistan to train in Kandahar, just like Al Omari.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/khalid_al_mihdhar_still_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Khalid Al Mihdhar&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This allegation arises in the BBC article, where it is speculated he “might be alive”.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A Saudi computer programmer called Khalid Al-Mihammadi claimed in September 2001 that the photo initially released by the FBI was him. However the article that released this information also revealed that the FBI initially released two alternative names - Khalid Al Mihdhar and Khalid Al-Mihammadi – with different photographs for each. Which means Al-Mihammadi the computer programmer is not Al Mihdhar the hijacker.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Indeed, Khalid Al Mihdhar the hijacker was an Al Qaeda veteran. In 1995 he travelled to Bosnia with fellow 9/11 Hijacker Nawaf al Hazmi to join the Bosnian Muslims in their war against the Bosnian Serbs. After this he travelled to Afghanistan where he joined Al Qaeda and fought against the Afghan Northern Alliance. According to his family, in 1998 he fought in Chechnya.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/mohammed_atta_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Mohammed Atta&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The allegation that Atta is still alive originates from his father. His father’s story has changed dramatically over time, making his assertions unreliable. Here’s some highlights:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mohamed al-Amir Atta first talked to the media in an &lt;a href="http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Eqyptian%20man%20denies%20son%27s%20involvement%20in%20hijackings.html" target="_blank"&gt;interview for the New York Times on the 19th of September, 2001&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In this interview Atta Senior denies his son was involved in the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; "Mohamed. Oh God! He is so decent, so shy and tender," said the father, a 65-year-old retired lawyer. "He was so gentle. I used to tell him, 'Toughen up, boy!'"&lt;br /&gt;Mr. Atta stood on the barren concrete doorstep of his 11th-floor Cairo apartment today, alternating between rage at the picture being painted of his son as one of the attack's ringleaders and pride that his boy had done well abroad after graduating with average marks in architecture from Cairo University's Faculty of Engineering. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Atta’s father also makes a number of other claims throughout the interview:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; -He called the USA a “Tyrant Nation”, criticising it for supporting Israel, and for moral contagions such as adultery and same-sex marriage.&lt;br /&gt;-He said he believed his son had gone to the USA for further education.&lt;br /&gt;-He said that his son may have been murdered, and his documents stolen.&lt;br /&gt;-He said his son had last been in Egypt a year ago (late 2000).&lt;br /&gt;-He said someone like Mossad had the capacity to plan the attacks, but not his son.&lt;br /&gt;-He said he was sure his son was still alive, and that his son was afraid of flying.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Atta Senior next appears in a &lt;a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067635/" target="_blank"&gt;24th September interview for Newsweek&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   -Upon opening the door for the journalist he immediately declared that Mossad killed his son.&lt;br /&gt;-He then lectured on Mossad and its “ugly history”, concluding that they kidnapped his son and stole his identity.&lt;br /&gt;-In this interview he claims that his son called him during the day of 12 September (night of 11/12th in New York) and that at the time he knew nothing of the attacks. He asserts that Mossad forced his son to make the phone call “to cause controversy”. It is worth noting that he makes no mention of this phone call in his earlier interview with the New York Times.&lt;br /&gt;-Atta Senior claims in this interview that he last saw his son in October 1999 – a full year removed from what he claimed in the previous interview. He states that his son then returned to his studies in Germany, calling once a month.&lt;br /&gt;-In this interview he claims he always assumed Atta was calling from Germany, and that he had no knowledge his son had ever been to the USA. This also is a direct contradiction of his earlier claims. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The next interview would come from the &lt;a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/oneyearon/story/0,12361,784541,00.html" target="_blank"&gt;Guardian on September 2nd 2002&lt;/a&gt;, reporting an interview with the German Bild am Sonntag newspaper.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; In this interview his story changes again. He claims that Atta is still alive, and in hiding from US Intelligence Agents so that they don’t kill him.&lt;br /&gt;Rather than blame 9/11 on Mossad, this time Atta Senior blames it on “American Christians”.&lt;br /&gt;He also expressed a fear that the US would try to poison him. He reiterated his previous claim that his son had called him on the 12th, stating that it had been around midday (0500 EDT). He also recounted his return home on the night of the 12th (midday EDT). His daughter called him, arrived at the house, and told him to turn on his television. At this point he first sees news footage of the aircraft hitting the towers and his son’s photo. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Two years later, in an &lt;a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5961724/" target="_blank"&gt;Associated Press interview on the 3rd anniversary of the attacks&lt;/a&gt;, Atta Senior first blames Mossad for the attacks, and then God (as punishment for the USA’s evil). He proposes that a Palestinian who rams an aircraft into the White House killing President George Bush and his family will go to heaven.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Perhaps the article that is most damning of Atta Senior is an interview from &lt;a href="http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2485" target="_blank"&gt;October 2004 with the Egyptian Magazine “EgyptToday”&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; This time around he declares that “without stopping to think about it” he knew 9/11 was carried out by Mossad and “American right-wing extremists the neoconservatives”.&lt;br /&gt;After declaring that no one has presented any facts to demonstrate that his son and Osama Bin Laden carried out the attacks, Atta Senior then proceeds to offer some “facts” of his own:&lt;br /&gt;-4,000 Jewish workers at the WTC did not turn up on 9/11&lt;br /&gt;-101 businessmen were supposed to be on AA11 on 9/11 but did not board and did not cancel their tickets.&lt;br /&gt;-On 10 September the FBI recorded two US Congressmen calling two separate newspapers with the message “It’s zero-hour. The game starts tomorrow.”&lt;br /&gt;-On the morning of 9/11 the pilot of AA11 (John Ogonowski) handed two workers at Boston Airport a video tape explaining the plan for the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;-Japanese Intelligence published a report with details of the four pilots of the hijacked flights, all of whom were American, had served in the Vietnam War, and belonged to secret Christian societies.&lt;br /&gt;-Jewish owners of stocks of the Airlines and Insurance companies involved in 9/11 sold their stock for high prices on 1st September in Europe, repurchasing them on 17th September once prices crashed.&lt;br /&gt;Atta Senior points out that initially Islamic Terrorists were blamed for the Oklahoma City Bombing. He claims that Timothy McVeigh’s last words were “Revenge will come in September”.&lt;br /&gt;He further claims that “four or six Israelis” videotaped the crashes in Manhattan, standing in the middle of the street, singing in Hebrew, and dancing in a circle at the moment of the attack. He alleges they were videoing the aircraft when it was a mere speck in the sky, thus indicating they knew where it would be coming from. &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A final interview was conducted with a &lt;a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/19/atta.father.terror/index.html" target="_blank"&gt;CNN producer in July, 2005&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; This interview was two weeks after the July 7 bombings in London, and Atta senior expresses his desire to see more of such attacks. He predicts that 9/11 and the July Bombings are the beginning of what will be a 50 year religious war in which there will be more fighters like his son.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is a significant divergence from earlier claims. Previously he had asserted that his son was not political and not especially religious. Now he asserts that his son was a fighter in a 50 year religious war.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He cursed Arab and Muslim leaders who condemned the London Bombings as traitors and non-Muslims, and expressed his desire to encourage more attacks. When CNN asked permission to conduct another interview he demanded $5,000 which he said he would use to fund another attack like the London Bombings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;CNN declined.  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As we can see, Mohammed Atta’s father cannot be considered a reliable source. His story continuously changes, is self-contradicting, and he is clearly heavily biased in the subject matters at hand. He is also clearly poorly informed regarding 9/11 – every single one of the claims he makes in the EgyptToday interview is totally false.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other records of Atta’s life paint a very different picture. His fellow students in Germany recall him abruptly changing after a long trip away (which video evidence indicates was a trip to Afghanistan). He came back very religious, political, and wearing a beard. As the leader of the 19 hijackers, Atta spent much longer in the USA than most of the conspirators, and records of his movements – including a traffic violation, financial transactions, and purchases with a credit card in his name, leave a very solid evidence trail that supports the official version of events.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/said_al-ghamdi_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Saeed al-Ghamdi&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Again it is the BBC article of 23 September that identifies al-Ghamdi as alive. According to their report a London-based Arabic newspaper called Asharq Al Awsat interviewed him after the attacks. The Telegraph article of the same day expanded on this reference.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to their story, as with Al Omari, al-Ghamdi was a Saudi pilot. As with Al Omari, his picture was broadcast on CNN to the world. Saeed claims he was in Tunis at the time with 20 other students learning to fly the Airbus A320.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Like Al Omari, al-Ghamdi had previously studied at the same Florida flight school that some of the hijackers used. A clear pattern arises. Just as with Al Omari, the photograph released by the FBI on 27th September was not al-Ghamdi the pilot.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Germany newspaper Der Spiegel investigated some of the hijacker-alive claims, and interviewed Mohammed Samman – the reporter who talked to al-Ghamdi the Saudi pilot. Samman was happy to confirm that the al-Ghamdi in the FBI’s suspect photographs issued on 27 September was not the pilot he had talked to.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But what of al-Ghamdi the hijacker?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to a &lt;a href="http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/news/driving_a_wedge/part1_side.shtml" target="_blank"&gt;Boston Globe article of March 2002&lt;/a&gt;, al-Ghamdi and three other 9/11 Hijackers from the same area of Saudi Arabia (Wael and Walid Alshehri and Ahmed Alnami) met at the Al Farouq training camp in Kandahar, Afghanistan. The same Al Qaeda camp where other 9/11 hijackers trained. In 2000 these four hijackers, including al-Ghamdi, dedicated themselves to Jihad in a Saudi mosque, according to local clerics and friends.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In March 2001 al-Ghamdi appeared in an Al Qaeda “farewell” video broadcast on Al Jazeera. In the video he is seen studying flight maps and training manuals, and declares the USA “the enemy”. He appears in the video with other 9/11 hijackers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/salem_al-hamzi_still_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Salem Al-Hamzi&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Al-Hamzi is one of two sets of brothers amongst the 9/11 Hijackers. The doubt over his identity arises from the Telegraph article, where it cites a petrochemical worker from the Yanbu Industrial City in Saudi Arabia. However Al-Hamzi the worker is a different age to Al-Hamzi the alleged hijacker, has never been to the USA (the FBI cited Al-Hamzi the hijacker’s residence as in New Jersey), and perhaps most odd of all, makes no mention of the accusations laid against his presumably also innocent brother Nawaf. Could it be this particular Al-Hamzi doesn’t have a brother called Nawaf, and is, indeed, an entirely different person?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Saudi Information Agency seems to be talking about an entirely different Al-Hamzi. According to them, the two Al-Hamzi brothers were from Makkah, and left Saudi Arabia in March 2000 to train at the same Kandahar camp where the other alleged hijackers trained. Sound familiar?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/wail_al-shehri_still_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;Wail&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://www.911myths.com/html/waleed_al-shehri_still_alive.html" target="_blank"&gt;Waleed&lt;/a&gt; Al-Shehri&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There’s no less than three claims to the identity of the second pair of brothers to take part in the 9/11 hijacking. The first , Waleed Al-Shehri, appeared in the BBC article previously mentioned, and was a pilot in Casablanca. He denied having a brother called Wail, or knowing anyone in his family called Wail. His claim is that a friend saw his photo, however this story appeared before the FBI released the photographs. We can trace this photograph back to the same CNN news broadcast in which many other hijackers were displayed with photographs of entirely innocent men.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Al-Shehri the pilot also trained at the school in Florida where others such as Al-Omari trained. Further confirmation came from the investigation conducted by Der Spiegel. In their article they claim the pilot from Morocco was not called Waleed Al-Shehri at all, but Walid Al-Shri; the mistake appears to be a result of the transliteration of his Arabic name.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another claim was that the two brothers were sons of a Saudi diplomat based in Bombay. The diplomat in question was identified as Ahmed Al-Shehri, and these claims arose in Saudi media shortly after the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &lt;a href="http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/globe_stories/0915/Hijackers_may_have_taken_Saudi_identities+.shtml" target="_blank"&gt;Boston Globe contacted Ahmed Al-Shehri on 15 September&lt;/a&gt; and asked him about the two brothers.  His response was less than compelling.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt; ''I have no idea. Maybe,'' said al-Shehri, who worked as an attache at the Saudi embassy in Washington until 1996. ''How do I know? We have a half-million Shehris in Saudi Arabia.'' &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A day later, in a 16 September article, the &lt;a href="http://www.wanttoknow.info/010916post" target="_blank"&gt;Washington Post reports&lt;/a&gt; that Ahmed Al-Shehri denied the two alleged hijackers were his sons.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The FBI identified Waleed as Waleed M Al-Shehri, and this single often-excluded middle initial may hold the answer. In Saudi Arabian naming tradition, the last name refers to the tribal name, sometimes including hundreds of thousands of members, as demonstrated by Al-Shehri the diplomat. The middle name for men is usually taken from the father. In the case of Ahmen Al-Shehri, a son called Waleed would have the middle initial A – for Ahmed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As it happened another man called Muhammad Ali Al-Shehri &lt;a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20020929001039/www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=9424&amp;ArY=2001&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;ArM=9&amp;amp;ArD=17" target="_blank"&gt;claimed to be the father of the two hijackers&lt;/a&gt;.  He hadn’t seen his sons since December 2000.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a further &lt;a href="http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc082502.html" target="_blank"&gt;NBC interview&lt;/a&gt; a living brother of the hijackers – Saleh – stated that he felt his brothers were dead and had been brainwashed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a &lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/15/wdoss215.xml" target="_blank"&gt;Telegraph article&lt;/a&gt; a cousin of the brothers claimed that after a trip to Medina in 1999 they changed, growing beards, becoming very religious, and shunning their former friends.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Saudi Information Agency profile on the brothers indicates that they were religious, and left Saudi Arabia to train at Al Qaeda’s Kandahar camp in Afghanistan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This certainly accounts for the claims from living people that they were the suspects named. However this doesn’t of course mean the hijackers are indeed dead.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the wake of the attacks an extensive FBI investigation was conducted. Given the suicidal nature of the attacks, the hijackers were not especially concerned about hiding their tracks, and as such the investigation uncovered a substantial amount of evidence implicating the nineteen hijackers. The tickets for the flights were registered in their names, and video surveillance captured the hijackers of AA11, UA175, and AA77 as they passed through airport security. There was no video surveillance at the security gate for UA93.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Calls from passengers and crew on each of the four flights identified the hijackers as middle-eastern, and on some flights their seat numbers were identified. The nineteen hijackers are the only people on any of the four flights with Arabic names.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some of this evidence was presented in the case of &lt;a href="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/" target="_blank"&gt;United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui at the United States District Court, Eastern District of Virginia&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A further trail of evidence puts all of the 9/11 hijackers through Al Qaeda’s training camp in Kandahar, Afghanistan, as previously discussed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lastly, martyr videos for many of the hijackers exist which depict their targets behind them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These have been assembled into a comprehensive series of videos which present compelling evidence that Al Qaeda and the nineteen hijackers did indeed carry out the attacks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The series is titled “The Usual Suspects”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Part One&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uu6pZ6BPSuo"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uu6pZ6BPSuo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Part Two&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aBa252lC4uA"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aBa252lC4uA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Part Three&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ighjUx7H03I"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ighjUx7H03I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Part Four&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LfuZFU39XKI"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LfuZFU39XKI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is substantial evidence to support the contention that the nineteen named hijackers were indeed responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and died that day. The evidence supporting the contention that they are still alive is weak, and close investigation reveals that those who came forward as the hijackers were simple cases of mistaken identity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --&gt; &lt;div class="post-quote"&gt;  &lt;div class="quote-username"&gt;       Quote:     &lt;/div&gt;    &lt;div class="quote-message"&gt;   &lt;b&gt; The inherent claim that at least six of the hijackers are still alive is rejected.&lt;/b&gt;  &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/2993674384871015869-270203874334162728?l=davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/270203874334162728'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/2993674384871015869/posts/default/270203874334162728'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://davidraygriffin115lies.blogspot.com/2007/05/first-lie.html' title='First lie'/><author><name>Jay</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/17951311616880111671</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author></entry></feed>
